Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

NOW you're talking.

 

right??? if we're going to go full boobhouse, might as well throw it all in! hahaha

 

Could not have said it better.

 

Here is the real question this thread needs to answer: If Kylo Ren uses Hux's skull as an ashtray, will Millicent still use it?

 

I'm slightly confused about what it is people think Rey will do in this trilogy as the hero. Right now it sounds like she'll just go and kill Snoke and kill Ren.

I mean, episodes 1-6 taught us to forgive, use love rather than hate, that redemption is possible for anyone etc etc

What will 7-9 teach us and all the traumatised, poorly parented little girls? That it's best to just be a kick ass warrior and kill your enemies?

For Rey to be another successful hero in this mythology she has to go above and beyond what Luke achieved. That means saving the galaxy, saving a victim of the dark side, saving the Jedi order and perhaps doing what Luke failed at: forever ending the dark legacy of Vader.

Shock horror: I think the female lead can do all that. I guess I'm not like Trump after all.

 

i think this is exactly what she's going to do.

...and Poe agrees.

 

as always, i completely respect your opinion.. if that's what you think of some of us then it's your right to say so.

it's within my rights, firstly as someone here who likes the Ren redemption and coalition with Rey idea.. and also as someone who has an 8yr old daughter to reply:-

throwing around the term 'sexist' and accusing ppl of being bad parents shows a complete lack of class. nobody in this thread has demonstrated what you refer to.. nobody, and i've read nearly every page. i won't say another thing on the matter, but i hope you will take a step back yourself and think about what your calling some of the members here.

the subject of force users invading ppl's minds is a tricky one in the SW universe. clearly some are seeing the use of it as an abusive violation, but i don't think GL and subsequent makers of SW ever had the intention of us viewing it that way. I'll list some of the uses from the films:-

ANH: Kenobi invading a stormtrooper's mind to trick their way past a checkpoint.
ROTJ: Luke invaded Bib Fortuna's mind to get access to Jabba.
TFA: Rey invaded a stormtrooper's mind to get released from captivity.
TFA: Ren invaded Poe's mind to get information about the map
TFA: Ren invaded Rey's mind to get information about the map
TFA: Rey invaded Ren's mind as a counter to what Ren was doing.

someone tell me what's ok and what isn't? either it's all ok or it's all wrong, unless someone has a rulebook about what's a violation and what isn't.

everyone in the theater around me during the first showing of TFA laughed out loud when Rey got Daniel Craig's stormtrooper to drop his gun... and yet i've seen the word 'rape' in this forum used to describe what Ren was doing.
picking and choosing from that above list and describing one of them as 'rape' is thoughtless.. utterly thoughtless. unless we're saying ALL use of mind tricks/probes are the same?

 

This is not difficult, since with the reboot of TFA to ground zero, Luke pretty much failed at everything between ROTJ and TFA.

To be serious, I just want to see Luke succeed in something in this trilogy and leaving a legacy.

 

I grew up with a strong sister and a strong mother. Both are hard working and undependend from the help and good will of any man. Thats my personal picture of woman from day 0.



Sometimes, people can be good for each others development, no matter if they are male or female.
Rey is strong, she does not at any level need Ren. But maybe she could be able do step back from revenge feelings under special circumstances and join the fight against snoke because of pragmatic reasons. I do not insist that it plays out this way. Its only a bad fanfiction of mine

 

Ladies and gentlemen,

When posting, please try to focus on opinions and perspectives, not in judging other users for their perspectives. We acknowledge all of us have different perspectives, different hopes and expectations regarding the future development of the character of Kylo Ren aka Ben Solo BUT we can't afford to include our personal judgement regarding the opinions of others.

And yes, it is a matter of perspective: for some the interrogation will go as a assault; for some others, it will not. Let please refrain of stating our personal judgement about those who disagree with us.

Let's all remember that, no matter how much we argue about the reasons why we think our theory is right and the others are wrong, at the end of the day we might not end up being right on what it will happen on the next installments.

Standing ovation.

 

One of the ways in which inequality manifests itself is when men are telling women/"little girls"/daughters what they have to/should think/believe/feel, etc and what is "best for them".

Rey doesn't need someone taking her hand as she can run by herself very well. But it also doesn't mean she dislikes hand-holding in general.

But also she can be vulnerable, just as a man can be vulnerable, and she may or may not chose to save someone, or love someone, or decide that that someone maybe deserves a second chance.

A woman can be a hero and still need a man by her side as her equal. That should be the message. The message should be that women who are scientists, scholars, presidents or jedi are not some strange breed of asexual alien creatures who are an exception, but rather they can be all of it. They can be scientists, scholars, pilots or jedis, but also have human feelings and relationships and not necessarily live alone apart from everybody like hermits.

Essentially it means that they have the option and freedom to be who they want to be.
Including, they can also chose to be bad (*cough*Phasma*cough*) and evil too if they so desire.

So the big message to little girls should be - men will not tell you anymore what you can or cannot be. You can be a hero, a jedi, a pilot or you can be a sith, Imperial admiral or a stormtrooper captain. You can be whatever you want to be.

So there is zero problem with Rey deciding or doing whatever she decides to do. She should not have to have the approval of men to do so.
But at the same time she should not be transformed in a sexless, emotionless robot who is aloof and unaffected by the world and others.
And most importantly the message should not be, little girls can be jedi, but they should be alone and cannot love, be compassionate or have an equal partner by their side.

So showing a female hero of a movie be compassionate, selfless and forgiving not only to her immediate relatives (which in itself is really not such a great feat), is surely a greatly positive message that is certainly good for little girls. And for little boys too. In fact, such a message is direly needed particularly for little boys, as it seems that the "little girls" in our world kind of seem to know that already.

I think a sexism thing is also when the feeling, torn, conflicted, sensitive and teared up Kylo Ren is labeled as a "whiny emo", because *gasp* it is surely weak for men to feel, have emotions, cry or be "beat up by a girl". In fact what the "beat up by a girl" implies is the deep set false belief that women cannot be men's equals.
If Rey was a man and beat up Kylo with a sudden surge of the Force (which is what happened in TFA) I would bet that the protests of Kylo being bested by a noob would be far far less. In fact, I bet that the fanboys will be absolutely ecstatic instead.

But back to the contested topic. Saving Ben Solo, who happens to be the son of two of the OT heroes and the nephew of the other one and not wishing him to become the bad*** deranged and very powerful psycho is certainly not a stretch at all. Not because he is related to them, but because we have seen them (we are yet to see what Luke feels) to deeply care about him and "want him back". I kind of like Han and Leia and sort of care that they have lost their son (and importantly we still don't know how exactly!) and for their sake I want their son to be back.

And if Rey is enlisted in that cause, why the hell not?! It doesn't diminish her even one little bit. On the contrary, if Ben Solo is not her brother, cousin, etc. her compassion and selfless care for someone who is not her relative, but who in some respects is weaker than her (and no I don't mean it in computer game power level sort of way) is what will make her even more a bigger hero. Kylo/Ben is a mess. He has been manipulated and willfully been mislead to be where we have found him in TFA. He needs saving. That's what we saw Han and Leia (begin to) try to do in TFA. In a way he is the prince(ss) enchanted and locked in a tower by an evil dragon and the hero needs to go and save him.
To say that it diminishes Rey's hero arc because she may accept to trust him and team with him for a common good cause is simply ridiculous.

The time where the woman is a sleeping beauty waiting for a handsome random prince to wake her up by a kiss and win her heart just for doing that is over. Done.
Now is the time for a space fairy tale where the female hero has magical powers and a flaming sword and teams up with the anti-hero/fallen knight/lost prince of Alderaan together as supporting and complementing each other as equals to slay the dragon and then live happily ever after (together or apart).

 

*mic drop*

 

I agree. I struggle to think of a more impotent sounding pitch for a story trajectory absent any narrative context and drama.

Luckily I haven't come across such simple and callow ideas around the forum in my travels yet. I trust the professional writers aspire to a higher standard than any asinine sounding ideas on fan forums that are limited to extrapolating the little character information available forward and mixing it with personal ships and fan projection!

I see zero interest in the weak and patricidal Kylo from the strong and independent Rey at this point - he's lucky she hasn't killed him already. The speculation I've seen regarding a possible ally-ship seems to assume a re-emergence of a Ben Solo character at the expense of Kylo Ren and new and drastic information/circumstances coming to light that might demand a temporary truce or stay of execution. I would guess that most here could imagine Kylo looking to Rey for light and instruction long before Rey would consider likewise, but, who knows?

Should the writers ever choose to explore a narrative angle that temporarily allies Kylo and Rey, I would hope they are competent enough to do it within a complex and original narrative that has their arcs intersecting and informing each other without weakening them to the detriment of the story or reducing them to simple character stimuli in a vacuum.

It could well be. Hopefully it doesn't have to be the case if that's what the future holds for the ST. Personally, I find it difficult to see an original take on BRen becoming either the big bad or undertaking a heel-faced-turn but I just figure that my own failure to imagine a narratively satisfying journey is probably just an indication of my lack of imagination and story-telling acumen!

Hopefully my expectations aren't set too high but I'm open to being surprised and this is actually where I have some faith in some of the writing and directing talent behind the ST - wherever they take the characters. *fingers-crossed*

 

@Moral Hazard, @Obi-Wan Solo, @PrincessLeiaCB3 ~ thank you for these great posts!

ironically, Rey doesn't really need anybody to defend her from Kylo Ren.
as Han says, she has a lot to learn, but she's also managed to take very good care of herself.

her trials will get more difficult (and so will his). whatever their ultimate destination, their trajectory is aligned.
i continue to hope that whatever happens they ultimately find a way to actually support one another to fix the Skywalker family and save the galaxy.
i don't know why anyone wouldn't want that.

 

I look at it like this: Rey is the hero. At some point she is going to find out what the dark side is all about. She's going to experience its temptations, its power and its consequences. Rey is also allied with Luke and Leia so she will learn all about what happened to Ben Solo (perhaps the person Rey caught a slight glimpse of in tfa? It's also worth keeping in mind just how differently Ren treated Rey to everyone he encountered - showing compassion for her no less!).

So would it then not be reasonable to suggest that Rey will find common ground with Ren? For the story to go anywhere interesting Rey has to be tempted by the Dark Side - I imagine due to her family and past.

 

I think it is all up to

wow, you really say Kylo treated Rey well (showing compassion) with torturing her and throwing her into a tree? Wow....I just cannot believe it....

 

i suspect fiddling in each other heads is going to unlock all sorts of demons ~ and that ultimately they'll find a common enemy (likely a false one at first, and then discover the true one together).

 

I'm saying compare how he treats Rey to how he treats Tekka, Poe, Han and Finn. Plus we know he has compassion for her, so there is that...

 

no to mention, she was going to shoot him--it was a reflex.
what was he supposed to do? just stand there and take it (again!)?

 

where was it mentioned he has compassion for her? I may have missed it in the movie. I only saw how he tortured, injured and hurt Rey.