Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

It's implied on scene but stated in the novel.

 

on scene nothing like that is implied, so can you give me the passage in the novel to check it out at home?

 

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 27, 2016 ---

Would Ren have spoken to Poe so kindly? "Don't be afraid...I feel it too".

 

he also says to her in the interrogation that he doesn't want to hurt her. hurting Poe? no problem.



he didn't personally carry Poe to his ship.
he didn't sit and wait and watch Poe for who knows how long before addressing him.
he didn't take off his helmet for Poe.
he didn't try to reassure Poe: don't be afraid, i feel it too.
he didn't idly sift through Poe's irrelevant feelings of loneliness, his hopes and dreams.

those are all "implications" of a level of care. not to say they are appropriate. but it's not rocket science to see that he treats Rey with a regard he simply does not have for Poe. and the whole point of seeing these two scenes (other than furthering the plot) is to juxtapose his behavior.

 

one could argue that when he threw her up in the air in the forest... it was so that he wouldn't have to fight her? to avoid killing her?

i'm not saying that i'm arguing for that to be the case.. but one could

 

I think he definitely did that.
After the Han moment, Ren went back to acting the monster. But the light was still there and he couldn't bring himself to harm Rey as he could Finn. I'm not saying he through the fight, but I don't think he was going for kill like he would against anyone else. He even stops to suggest he train her - how would Snoke have felt about that?

It's obvious to me that there is a connection between the two. When Ren is in her head, he essentially says things about her that I think would be true to him: "You're so lonely"..."So afraid"..."Don't sleep" etc etc etc. I imagine that is Ren too. And I think he probably has visions of some kind of an Island away from it all. He certainly wished his father was the father figure he didn't have - if that makes any sense?!

 

ahh ok, this is just the fear of Snoke losing his appreantice to the lightside (as Snoke pointed out before, he has the ability to use both) and not a confirmation about any compassion of Kylo.

And yes Kylo spoke kindly to Poe in the beginning as well with him being the best pilot in the galaxy. This is more a kind of typical mocking of a villain towards one of his hostages, before they get tortured.

 

If Ren didn't have compassion for her why would Snoke have said it? What would Snoke have to fear? And why would Ren have been so jumpy about it?

Oh puuuuuuuhlease!
Ren is sinister with Poe. With Rey he's utterly different. Carries her to his craft. Sits lower than her. Takes his mask off. Reassures her. Doesn't physically harm her (in that scene).

 

and even then, he has to push himself to do it: pounding his wound and reminding himself that Han can't save them (him) now.

completely--and it's so heartbreaking! but even in the worst of his jealousy, he doesn't exactly lash out at her; he just sort of attempts to school his emotions and get the job done.

 

Yeah that's such a great point. Saw you posted that a page or so back and the fully extent hadn't occurred to me. Sure, I thought he's hitting it for adrenaline but the extension of that being trying to forget about the weakness he just felt after killing Han - great point.

 

I'm really wondering what some of you see in Kylo that you interpret all those scenes in such a way. And what it makes worth that he is saved at all after all the crimes he committed in TFA? I doubt anyone interpreted such scenes in ANH and when Vader killed all the people. Nevertheless, I just see him completely different and as the villain to be hated and stopped in this trilogy at any cost.

 

What do we see in him? Uh, all the things we posted and the way he is presented in TFA.
Even JJ said he was conflicted when he murdered his father. Afterwards he felt weakened. So Ben Solo is in there still. That's what we see.

As for why would we want him redeemed? Because it's a pretty tragic tale if he isn't and it will be a massive failure all round - for Han, Leia, Luke and Rey.
What's more, did you have a problem with Vader being redeemed? He did far worse that Ren.

 

i don't know why you wonder. we keep explaining it.

he's the son of our OT heroes. he's the last of the Skywalker line (so far that we know).
Leia wants him back. Han forgave him. he's been corrupted by an evil power and is clearly confused about what he's doing.

none of that is interpretation.
his behavior with Rey is explicit--why else would he treat her different from Poe? he chooses to go easy on her.
why does Snoke accuse him of having compassion? because he chose to go easy on her.
it's all laid out right there: it's like you don't want to see the evidence even when it's presented.

i can see no more worthy cause than Luke and Leia and Rey bringing this lost boy home.
the legacy of the Skywalkers depends on it. the galaxy depends on it.

 

After ESB and when Vader did cut off Luke's hand, noone talked about how compassionate he treated Luke. But now we have these kind of strange discussions. And it was a surprise that Vader was redeemed in ROTJ, but luckily he died soon afterwards. I would have had a problem if Luke had brought him back to his friends on Endor with saying, it wasn't so bad that he tortured my sister, my best friend and killed millions of people.

The legacy of the Skywalker bloodline is already damaged/destroyed with no chance to fix it. We had one tyrant in this family with Vader and now a second one. Nothing can really change this whatever Luke and Leia may do. family killing family is the worst of it and a point of no return in my opinion.

 

I could talk about Vader showing signs of compassion then if you'd like? But he sure as hell didn't show the same levels of compassion then as Ren did to Rey.
And again, although you wouldn't have wanted the awkward moment Luke introduced his father to all his victims surely you can see the point in his redemption?
Why can't we afford Ren that same courtesy? And why can't we dare to suggest that Rey could act with Ren as Luke did with Vader?

 

Vader was Luke's father (he felt a kind of family responsibility), so when we go with the unrelated route, I see no reason why Rey should care for Kylo if he lives, dies or is redeemed.

 

honestly, this is the most pessimistic thing i have ever read on this forum.
you don't want to know or understand why anybody would want to save Ben.

oh well.

 

before i give my take on that... isn't it brilliant that we've got a character and scenes that are dividing opinion so much? i can almost hear the story group saying "this will keep the fans busy for a couple of years!"

anyhoo, i can only answer that from my own perspective. I see a lost and tormented Ben Solo, i don't see a cold merciless villain.

ok, ask yourself these questions:-

if Han could face Ben on the bridge all over again, would he? even knowing that his son will kill him.. would he try again?

Will Leia agree that Ben is past the point of saving now that he has killed Han? will Ben's mother write off her own son?

Will Luke think he can save Ben? is Ben more lost to the dark side than Anakin?

i asked myself these questions.. Han would do it all over again, Leia will try and save her son in 8 or 9 and Luke will absolutely think that Ben can be saved.

i agree with them, that he can be saved and that he is worth saving.

 

I just mean with this statement that it was a mistake to make another one from the Skywalker bloodline the villain of this trilogy. But the writers decided to do it and now we have to face the consequences. A redemption doesn't change that the Skywalker line is cursed now sadly and seen as such in the galaxy.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 27, 2016 ---

hmmm, the rumors point to a different view of Luke when he wants Rey to kill Kylo in VIII.

 

And yet, it would appear then that she doesn't follow this order...?