Official Episode VIII - Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

and i'll just throw this out there: that the other option is still that he wants to somehow bring balance to the Force.
given his own imbalance and his desperation to rectify it, this is what makes the most sense to me.

even though Snoke is nudging him to push out the Light, we know that Ren has a separate agenda all his own (though we don't know exactly what it is). he is just as likely after the Temple to gain knowledge than destroy it.

don't forget: he could have turned over the map and Starkiller would have blown up Ahch-To and bye-bye Luke, Temple, etc. instead Ren dithered because, it seems, he wanted to actually get there.

everything about Ren Ben is is about resolving his pain. he might think the answers are there and he wants to take them from Luke by force if necessary.

 

In TFA he was after Anakin and Lukes lightsaber - what if his motivation hasn't changed?

 

I assumed this referred to the destruction of the Jedi order. Now down to one...

 

Vaders Castle from Rogue One and Kylo’s shuttle from Force Awakens.

 

I didn't realise they were SO similar.

 

Now parallels between Kylo/Luke
About Luke:
Aunt Beru: Luke's just not a farmer, Owen. He has too much of his father in him.
Uncle Owen: That's what I'm afraid of.
Yoda: Much anger in him... like his father.

About Ben:
Han: he had too much Vader in him.

Luke/Ben found out about in some point that Vader is his father/grandfather and Luke/Ben wanted to be a jedi/evil like Anakin/Vader before him. Luke/Ben had to decide if he will kill or not his father. Luke didn't kill Anakin, Ben killed Han.





by every-flavored-bean


Text: Analysis: Kylo Ren – The shadow of Luke Skywalker by Rachael

 

And Kylo Ren does seem to have a strangely personal interest in the map to Luke. Hux says to him point blank, "Careful, Ren, that your personal interest not interfere with orders from Leader Snoke," and Kylo's response is. "I want that map. For your sake, I suggest you get it." There's something he's not telling everyone.

 

Mrs Whiskerson ‏@gobbolino_twc 11 h
@pablohidalgo [...] Is the thing about Kylo being a focal point for light & dark not accurate then (from the novelisation)?

Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo 11 h
@gobbolino_twc That was in the script too. I guess we'll see where that goes.

 

Yeah it runs in the family. Every action.

 

purposely only quoted these 2 parts of your post.. what your suggesting has a lot of merit.

Once he became a trainee/padawn of Luke, we know nothing about Ben except that Snoke seduced him. We know zip about how that happened, and more especially we don't know what powers Snoke has. We all assume that Ben was 'Anakin' like, but what if he wasn't once he was training? what if he was a model padawan and Luke was telling him everything about his grandfather - that he brought balance to the force? What if Luke was teaching him how to deal with (and more importantly combat) the dark side?

where am i going with is? i'm not sure myself yet lol, but let's see..

What if Snoke is so powerful with the dark side that it's almost impossible to resist him? He corrupts Ben and turns him into Kylo Ren, who starts killing people and doing general bad stuff. Then.... as he spends time away from Snoke he starts to become conflicted.

What if Ben is starting to get some control back, and that he knows (from how vader did it) that the only way to redemption now is to become powerful enough with the dark side to take on Snoke and kill him.

let's look at his mask chat again..

I don't think he plans on killing Luke, but i do think that he knows from deep, deep inside himself somewhere that he will need to find him. He is still corrupted by the dark side though, so he is still the bad guy and will still be the bad guy when he finds Luke on Ach-To... but i don't think he even knows what he wants to achieve there.

I suppose this would make him a double agent of sorts.. but one that thinks that now he is in.. the only way out is his grandfathers method - go further in and kill the bad guy.

there is a famous Winston Churchill quote that goes..

he is in hell.. he has become the devil, but something is telling him to drive through it.


pretty thin right?

 

i think this is an interesting angle ~ certainly a new way of looking at it!
where i think it falls apart is that we don't have any evidence of Ren actively rejecting Snoke as his mentor and father surrogate.
he seems to have a vague sense that Snoke is using him (or even knows it outright, but justifies it to himself), but there's no spark of rebellion in him (yet).
i think it's coming. now that Snoke has wounded him so deeply by making him kill his father, he has a strong reason to distrust him.
and if Snoke interferes with Ren's desire to have Rey, i'm sure it will come to a head.

but at the moment, it doesn't make sense that he wants to learn from Snoke just to kill Snoke.
what's more, he hasn't got it in him to be deceitful because he actually believes in what he is doing.
Snoke knows he's pulled to the Light. stands to reason Snoke would also know if Ren was even subconsciously disloyal to the point of mutiny.
we have pretty good evidence that Ren is not capable of hiding his emotions on any level from anyone.
it would take some very disciplined subterfuge for him to pull such a thing off.

 

yeah, i'm not entirely sure i know what i'm suggesting lol.

i don't think i'm saying that he is in control of what he is doing.. he is dark side, he is the bad guy. but.. that the conversation he has with the mask revealed something - an instinct that's possibly surfaced, that to get out of this hole.. he needs to dig his way to the other side.

He isn't trying come back to the light.. as you said, we would see him rebel against Snoke. he definitely wouldn't.. you know... kill Han Solo !

either by instinct or by help from the light side of the force.. something is telling him to push through, and that his pain will go.


yeah i think it's getting thinner by the paragraph lol

 

hahaha ~ i think fundamentally you may be right in terms of his mindset of thinking he's already in the Dark and that the only way to go is further down. i think that's what he was trying to do with killing his father: resolve the waffling in his heart/soul and therefore resolve the pain. but yeah, i'm pretty sure that's not the Light guiding him; that's just his confusion and anger.

 

I wonder if Luke knows that his nephew have the ideal focal point between the dark side and the light, maybe the First Jedi Temple has the answers that Luke wants? Maybe the theory about Luke being the Last Jedi because Luke will start a different Jedi Order after all this events make sense.

 

interesting take, but I have no idea where this would lead us.

 

reading my own post back.. i'm not sure where i was going with it.

I was using the force.. and perhaps not in a good way lol

 

you were heading for redemption, which is exactly the right track. ; D

 

At the moment I am leaning towards the idea that Snoke is confident about himself being THE WISEST force god who exactly knows the one only path how the force and galaxy should be and how the force should be used. Therefore he must rule them all for the greater good. And Kylo believes in him to have the right answers (so far).
But there is a point where the old mummy will start to "destroy" (eat) his own "creation" like all tyrants at the very end.
Maybe there will be one move from Snoke that brings Kylo over the edge. The best chance maybe could be that he has to witness a scene where Snoke tries to torture Rey or tries pulls her to the dark side (I know, it reminds of DSII and what Sheeve has done) or maybe Rey is fully seduced by Snoke for a while... and BANG ...Keylo has the complete breakdown (or outburst) .

 

i think you're right! i think Snoke is gonna poke Ren Ben in the Rey and the whole delusion is going to burst.