SPECULATION OFFICIAL Finn Discussion Thread

The Light saber is the weapon of a Jedi. If he is not FS, I could see no purpose for him continuing to wield one, especially when we already know he is proficient with a blaster. Program Note: @Jedi MD the following is not directed specifically at you, this is my general feeling/general thoughts.

I wouldn't be ok with it, and here is the unfiltered reason why: By and large, I don't believe in the purity of the arguments of those who end up advocating for a "lesser" Finn. I don't believe their stated preferences is just a preference when the inevitable conclusion of each one consistently results in a more muted, less powerful, less centered, and/or less super natural Finn.

Now I know I said I'm the context and nuance guy (and I am) so isn't it true that I could be wrong? Might there be someone just really expressing a preference with no secret agenda.. no hidden "gotcha" at the end of the hook? Yes. But I understand the difference between "possible" and "probable".

For me the original question might just as well read, "how would I feel if Finn wasn't a Navy Seal like Luke and Rey, but he still had an M4 Carbine". I'd feel the same, that it was an end-around attempt to shelve Finn on a lower tier under the guise of giving him this "great story arc". It is not just about the weapon, or just about being FS, or even screen time or character development, it is about gravitas. I don't want reduced, diluted, low fat, sugar free, 0 trans fat relevance for Finn. And I can't pretend that it all doesn't look transparent to me, when the Finn character is the constant recipient of what I consider "relevance diminishing" scenarios. Or that somehow I'll overlook the fact that people want Finn on the Junior Varsity if they agree to make him a Team Captain once he gets there (i.e. Resistance Leader)

LOL, if being a Resistance leader is so boss, let Rey do it, and let Finn be the Jedi.

 

The Finn trauma continues. Finn cannot wield Anakin's lightsabre because it is not his heirloom. Rey can because it is her family heirloom. Arthurian trope. Get over it.

"how would I feel if Finn wasn't a Navy Seal like Luke and Rey, but he still had an M4 Carbine".

An extremely talented and heroic kind of guy if he he lacks the training of a navy seal but still manages to deliver the same performance. Have you been in the army?

 

People are so convinced that Rey is a Skywalker even though there's no evidence to back this up at all. Oh if I could see the reactions if it turns out she's not. Besides Finn already wielded that lightsaber so it's a little late to say he can't.

 

I think you're adding to the question before answering it. This isn't about Arthurian tropes, the question was if Finn wielded a light saber without Force Sensitivity. There was nothing in there speaking to the prior ownership and subsequent birth right claims. (And I'm setting aside the fact that Finn has already wielded the weapon because it's not central to my point anyway)

As for your response to my analogy, if the crux of the story is principally about Navy Seals and their theater of operations, he is nonetheless made a lower tier in relevance if he is not one. The story is about someone other than him, he is merely participating in their narrative. It is an inescapable conclusion that would apply to anyone put in that position. And given that we have the power of the pen to create the story, why would even author such a handicap into existence? For what purpose? Especially if the follow on argument is going to be "they deliver the same performance" - then put them on the same footing, what reason is there not to?

Still if everyone feels it is a benign distinction, then let Rey bear the weight of it. Let Rey be the talented heroic kind of gal that lacks navy seal status but still manages to deliver comparable results.

 

The "handicap" is there so the character has room to grow out of it with character development .

 

One answer: study literature and you know. There is proof in abundance. Finn did wield the weapon, but did he wield it succesfully?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2016 ---

Yes Finn wielded the sabre without force sensitivity. Finn is a soldier, not a Jedi. He can use the sabre because he is an outstanding soldier. You don't need the force to handle a lightsabre. You need basic training with a melee weapon. That's old canon wiped from the face of the galaxy for a good reason. Finn fails with the weapon each time because it is not his weapon. It does not say anything about his particular skills. So the weapon abandons him twice. The weapon has agency and seeks out it's rightful owner, Rey, because it is a family heirloom. She uses it succesfully because the weapon called to her, not to Finn. This is about arthurian tropes my friend whether you like it or not. No one can wield excalibur but the rightful king of the Britons: it is his weapon after all.

If you say that this was not Finn's story just as much as it was Rey's I would say you have seen a completely different movie. None is inferior to the other. If you only focus on 'force sentivity' as main grain of the story, I would say you misunderstood what the movie was about. The story is about belonging. That's the theme. The theme is not: "becoming a Jedi and being Force sensitive makes me more important that all off you cannon fodder na na na haha haha" Both characters are portrayed as equels in this search for belonging, each one dependent on the other.

I've said this before, people interested how this works can find by posts somewhere above.

Why do you want Finn to be force sensitive? Why do you want him to be a 'jedi'? Did you expect Finn to be Force sensitive before you saw the movie?

 

The Finn character in the movies and novelization is neither established as non-FS or FS. Maybe in the next episode he gets his "Jedi Wings" maybe in the episode after that. But the hypothetical put forward asks about the prospect of if he was an established non-FS who still wields a light saber. That is the handicap of which I speak, being an established non-FS... and one does not grow out of that (nor would it be offset with character development).

And so my question remains, why make him non-FS if he is going to wield the LS? Why add that handicap? Why make him less than the overwhelming vast majority of LS wielders who were FS?

 

Makes him kind of special that he can wield a lightsabre without being force sensitive. Have we seen that before? No. Yes Han cutting Tauntaun, but not actual fighting. This Finn guy is pretty overpowered! Again you don't need the force to use the lightsabre.

 

Maybe he's just THAT good at fighting that he can rival them...until try use the force to throw him around like a rag doll .

 

John McClain if Finn were McLain on vacation and got sacked into a navy seals botched mission then yes he would be equal but different.

I want a FS finn because it makes for a better character that can grow beyond just another soldier. If you read the new canon book weapon of a jedi it does say a lightsaber will do more harm than good if you are not strong in the force. I don't want a jedi, I want a normal dude that can do cool stuff. Actually I thought both he and rey would be. Her saber yank didn't suprise me at all

 

If you would make Finn forcesentitive retrospectively it would belittle his heroism and would indeed degrade him to a secondary character. If he is force sensitive, then there is nothing special about Finn from a storytelling perspective. He would be an inferior version of Rey with nothing special or interesting about his character. If he would be FS he would be indeed inferior. I think, that even though he was not force sensitive, he stood up against Kylo Ren, and thus against impossible odds. He decided that he would make a stand for his friend and would not run. A person who sacrifices himself in that particular moment, in an unequal fight he cannot win, is a true hero. I want to see Finn do great and heroic stuff in the next movies, but please don't make him force sensitive.

 

I think you are confusing FS with being a trained jedi knight . Is rey not heroic when she pulls the saber from kylo and with no formal training goes toe to toe with him?

Finn being FS does not take away from his act because many FS people run from danger or destiny not all of then run toward it

 

Well let's start from the top. No one is a Jedi right now but Luke. Not Finn, not Rey, not anyone. I think it's speculative for you to declare what is or isn't canon apart from what has already been explicitly articulated by TPTB.

I can appreciate that in your head canon, these are the things that are true. The weapon abandons Finn, the weapon gets on Craiglist and seeks out an owner, Rey is a Skywalker, she uses it because it called to her.

Some of these things may pan out to be true (the Skywalker lineage is one I'd be inclined to believe) but the idea that the weapon abandons Finn and casting it as the SW equivalent of the sword refusing to be pulled from the stone? LOL, I'm sorry, that's just not metaphorically applicable here. Anakin's light saber isn't the "one ring to rule them all". LS are tools and they were lost and created all the time, and ultimately I don't care if Finn owns some historic LS, I care that he wields his own (and he will, and I hope you're not crushed when he does).

And I'm not one who says the story isn't Finn's just as much as Reys, I'm trying to prevent people from turning him into a less relevant, less powerful, side kick participant in that story. I want Finn to be on the court taking shots on par with Rey and Luke. Others want to make Finn a clock operator or an assistant coach or Event Staff... people who are still important to the game and play a role in it happening, but not the stars, not the ones of stature, and not who people came to see. There is no amount of "dressing them up" that will change that.

I honestly don't see how what you assert that you like about Finn is mutually exclusive with FS. None of any of the Jedi human aspects are lost because of their power; if anything they are more closely examined. They can explore the idea of belonging and family just like they explored attachment without ever stripping away FS. I'm not sure why you seem to think if Finn is FS, that somehow his stand against Kylo Ren would no longer be brave. That does not logically follow.

 

I absolutely love Finn's character. If he is not FS and does not become a Jedi, but continues as he has become... i'm all good with that.

however, there are things that bug me.. and i'm still of the opinion that he is FS:-

Maz is force sensitive. a strong connection to the force is in her canon description somewhere i think.
Maz looks at Finn and sees that he wants to run. she offers him a way to the outer rim with some patrons.
Rey declines the lightsaber and runs off.
Finn goes to leave, changes his mind when starkiller fires and returns to Han.
Maz hands lightsaber to Finn
Maz encourages Finn to use the Lightsaber when he looks for a weapon.

i'm side-stepping what Finn heard before Starkillers beam hit the Hosnian system.. it was the exact same screams that we hear a few seconds later when Hosnian Prime is hit, but Pablo Hidalgo has semi poo pooed that (cant find his tweet currently soz), so i'll put that aside for the sec.

my point is... does it not seem a little odd that a wise force sensitive (Maz) would encourage a non force sensitive to use a lightsaber against a bucket load of storm troopers?

seemed to me that she was 'encouraging' something.

 

Different dynamic. John McClain IS the main character in his stories. The focus would be on him and about him, the Navy Seals would be participants in his story and likely toned down in their actions/tactics so that the McClain character could be on equal or better footing or maybe they would introduce Special Operator credentials to McClain's past to make that equal footing plausible.

 

Crazy theory time.... What if Finn becomes a Skywalker? I can see Rey creating her own lightsaber. If she were to marry Finn he could take the Skywalker name since he doesn't really have a name. Finn Skywalker could then take the lightsaber and pass it to the next generation.

 

For a moment, I thought you understood ..................

 

I agree with and follow you're reasoning here, but the standing talking point against this is Grievous/Han/Prizla argument. That you don't need to be FS to wield a LS.

 

Maz asked Finn to take the sabre to Rey....

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2016 ---

Finn is.... Ben Solo's half brother. Guess we now have a definitive answer why Han and Leia broke up....right.....right? Leia was swinging.

edit: the subtext is irony I'm already stacking 'disagree' ratings.

 

I disagree with this sooooo much.