Official Finn Episode VIII thread

Because a male plays a part does not die wonder why he is the only guy who survives. The answer to that where are all the females Fans of Star Wars and do they keep the Fandom alive for star wars for 40 years ? Hell no! Us men are Luke was no Gary Stu, neither Vader, neither Han Solo , neither Ben Solo neither Leia, neither Sidious, neither Asokha . Rey is a poorly written character who is a Mary Sue and she do not even fit in the story, we dont care about him or a her. We care about good story writing this why we are MAD ABOUT FINN! This a FINN THREAD no a Rey thread.

Back in the 80s when I seen Luke lose his hand I was a kid that we devastating to see that my hero lose his hand to Vader. Luke no Gary Stu! That real star wars it took guts for George Lucas make our hero lose his hand, what Rey lose? a nail? I see one the guards fighting her in the last Jedi lose one his swords in a fight it just disappeared in the fight and Rey killed him they lost his sword just for her to win a Mary Sue!!! Any you got issues with this she a Mary Sue you dont know what it means to be a Star Wars Fan!

 

Unless the character is written as selfish from the beginning... His/Her arc can't be giving their life to someone else's cause with nothing personally in it for themselves. If Mike Tyson wanted to kick our butts we would do everything we could to get out of it. If Mike Tyson were to come after our mother, we wouldn't hesitate to defend her. That's the difference. Anyone could understand fighting in that kind of situation, because it's personal. The one they set up for Finn right now has none of that which makes his character hard to relate to.

Nothing against Rey, but this trilogy really should have been about the story of a stormtrooper. This trilogy is not a classic tale of David vs. Goliath, so what are we suppose to cheer for? A Resistance group that has it's ties to the original trilogy, and nothing else? Majority of the people in our world are like the stormtroopers. We are the working class. Rey could have been that character alongside Finn, but Rian chose to elevate her and Kylo instead. Which turns everyone else into spectators and followers. Why would anyone cheer for that?

 

A female becoming a Jedi was always the goal of the creation of the sequel trilogy since the start.

All other things like the Resistance and a Rogue stormtrooper were created much later on in the process.

You can't use that this trilogy should have been about a stormtrooper at its center, when that was never their intention in the first place.

 

This is silly and quite frankly insulting. Several people have articulated why they think Finn is great. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't think you've articulated why. For someone who spends a great deal of time arguing about Finn you undermine your own argument dismissing others so casually.

It's like complaining about Han Solo's arc in Return of the Jedi. Maybe these unrealistic expectations are a result of the marketing head fake from TFA. I'm really looking forward to seeing Finn in the next film. The time jump will help and Luke being reduced to a supporting role.

 

They say that, but what was TLJ about? It wasn't about Rey. It was more about Rey and Kylo getting together than anything else. We wanted to know more about Rey, but we didn't get that. It seems the project turned from getting to know our characters to placing them in positions they haven't earned. At this point I don't know what this story is. Rey isn't interesting enough on her own, and we only have one movie left. The time to explore Rey is gone, so the only thing left is to ignore some of the events of TLJ, and go back to what made the first story work which was teamwork.

 

It's funny because John Boyega has explicitly addressed Finn's lack of applicable skills, especially in comparison to Rey and his dissatisfaction with him being used as a red-herring. Furthermore, he's also even offered his own suggestions regarding Finn's role with Force-sensitivity seemingly off the table. Yet here we are essentially being accused of asking too much for Finn for making the same points and calling attention to the same things that he does.
I honestly don't get people's need to constantly seek to invalidate other people's feelings of dissatisfaction regarding Finn's portrayal and arcs. It's like asking for him to get even get anything above bare-minimum attention and respect from the writers is a crime around here.

 

LOL, I am reasonably confident neither you nor anyone else can produce so much as 2 sentences back-to-back why Finn is great in TLJ with ACTUAL analysis from past posts.

You know why I'm reasonably confident? Because I have been here on this thread since before TLJ dropped and after; I've heard most the arguments; they are weak and ineffectual... to the point that I am being generous in describing them as arguments at all. A bunch of nebulous circular chatter that cannot survive in any reasonable market place of ideas and analysis.

Just so we're clear, I am seriously not debating this (with you or anyone else). There is a search function that we can all use and go back and look at the posts. I know what I've read. Assertions that Finn's arc was great in TLJ followed by word salad. And look, this doesn't surprise me, the people who generally do this seem to like Finn the best, when he is at his least. They want him ordinary. The rest of the exercise is as I have said, a sad quest to assign gravitas and meaning to Finn's story, that the movie did not. Not because they like Finn or actually find him interesting, but because as long as they maintain he was great the way he was, he can continue to be ordinary, unremarkable, and irrelevant.

Rest assured, I am not at ALL concerned about the stock market value of my arguments with people of this mind set.

 

I generally like your attempts to articulate your point of view, but your statement above is trollish and insulting. It's a shame your hate for this film has clouded your ability to reason.

On the flip side it makes it easier to ignore anything you have to say on this subject. You refuse to listen or give respect to alternative opinions so I'll gracefully bow to your superior intellect.

 

Finn looks hot in an FO uniform.



Finn is our first live-action side-flipping hero and i still think of him as the absolutely bravest of all the characters in the ST.
even after Ren put him in a coma, he was ready to go fight him again while everyone else was standing around quaking in their boots.
Finn is also the first character in Star Wars to be thwarted from self-sacrificing; and i'm glad because frankly we've had enough of that.

i love Finn. i agree he got somewhat sidelined in TLJ and i'm disappointed that he didn't have a cool broventure with Poe (we didn't need Rose), but it doesn't mean i love Finn any less.

other than Rey and Ren, Finn is the only BS series character i have bought twice (would have bought 3x but i never did find a stormtrooper version in the stores); and the only character other than Rey and Ren that i bought from TLJ.

i don't post to this thread because it's a flaming trash pit of irrational negativity.
what's the point? : o p

 

You do it anyway. No one is looking up to you. You think what you want, but those who feel the way they feel will continue to feel that way. Either you get it or you don't, but you aren't changing any minds, and you never will.

 

With that attitude, you must realize the Jedi have lots in common with cults

 

This seems to be an issue in some of these threads. It's difficult to reason with someone coming from that perspective so it's better to just ignore it I guess.

 

Funny words people use when they can't persuade people with weak arguments. You all need to become more mentally tough.

 

Finn is for certain brave; one of the few bright moments is the one you just described where there is not a moment of hesitation or fear once the blast door was compromised. He was going out to help and that's all there was to it. That said, I don't think anyone else was "quaking in their boots" though, the common trait among all the Resistance (and Rebellion) is bravery. Finn was just repeating what he did in TFA, facing down the impossible without fear.

Regarding his skimmer run, I honestly think it would have been better (for the movie) if he had just turned back when Poe said to. Having someone thwart one of the few free decisions he made just re-emphasized the degree to which it appeared others were making Finn's choices for him. I don't think the Franchise is done with self-sacrifice, so hopefully you're not too fatigued (Obi Wan, Luke, Vader, Holdo, that's actually not that many now that I think about it... maybe you're counting the Rogue One cast?)

I love what Finn could have been; there was so much promise for his character even, after TFA. So many different directions they could have gone that would have been ground breaking for the franchise. I don't see any promise anymore, and there was nothing I loved about him in TLJ; in hindsight (for me) the high water mark for Finn was in TFA and I didn't love everything about how he was depicted there either. But everybody said, be patient, it's only the first movie.

With Rian's installment effectively establishing his ceiling, I imagine Finn will be Lt. Connix with more screen time in EPIX. I honestly don't see what there is to love aside from Finn standing up to Ren in TFA and being willing to do it in TLJ. (You are obviously free to continue to love him since this is all subjective, I simply don't see the basis to do so. I wanted to. I really did. I was willing to overlook everything that was problematic in TFA for the promise that still existed. Now there is none.)

You're posting in this thread to say you don't post in this thread... and you have made this decision because of irrational negativity? How many negative ratings did you receive for this post? None?

Have you made this declaration in every thread or was there some reason you were singling this one out? Because there are tons of emotional and intense posts in threads across this forum and I don't see why this one in particular is being condemned for something that I see in numerous threads.

 

while i understand your disappointment (as i said, i was disappointed to a degree as well), i see too much rush to judgment. yes, we're 2/3 through the ST, but so far people have written off Rey as a Mary Sue, Ren as irredeemably evil (but still a terrible villain), Hux as an incompetent joke, and Finn as pointless.

the trilogy isn't over. if you don't like the characters or the story, that's okay. but it (and they) still aren't finished.

negativity is not just synonymous with ratings. trying to talk about a character you love and having everyone else in the thread just tear him down continuously, race-bait, etc.: that's not worth fighting with. not because Finn isn't worth it, but because life is too short to give audience to people with nothing positive to say.

i specifically responded because the allegation was made that if Finn was popular or interesting people would be posting to his thread.
i just wanted to say there are other reasons people don't want to post here that have nothing to do with how they feel about Finn.

for whatever that's worth.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: No one is stopping anyone who wants to praise Lucasfilm for their depiction of Finn, or talk about what they liked about Finn from doing so. You can be as positive and optimistic as you want, that's your right.

With that said, just like the optimists among us have the right to express their optimism, so do the pessimists have the right to express our pessimism.

 

Too much rush to judgement? The ST is 2/3 over. 2/3. Most of the story has happened. There is less ahead then there is behind. When are we allowed to judge? When is it not a rush? When the Titanic hits the ice berg or when the ship starts to submerge? Do you think JJ can salvage any the ST at this point even with a swath of fan services? I do not.

There was a time when I had to concede that people in the "wait and see" crowd had the more tenable position; assuming the worst after TFA was a "false start". And subsequently I found I had hope for what Rian might do with Finn in TLJ. But we've seen it now.

I don't know if you will, but I really do wonder if all those who said "wait and see" will own their error after EPIX or will they pivot to justifying whatever shows up on the screen as the only possible culmination. I suspect it will be the latter because we've already seen the beginnings of it.

Ok so it sounds like not only are you going for tone policing you are going for content policing. Maybe I'm wrong, but what I just gathered from what you said: People can't post what they dislike about Finn's handling because it bothers you when you want to post about what you like. If that's the case, I've got nothing for you here, that framework is flawed IMO. Meaningful conversation can still be critical; and whether you like it or not has no bearing on whether the critique has validity.

People who love TLJ regularly drop in The "Hate" thread. I think it's odd that negativity keeps you out, but you found your way here to disagree with my characterization of the "fandom" for Finn. Here's my take: the strength and size of Finn's fan base is a myth; emphasizing how much he is liked is a tool principally applied in an effort to silence criticism of his handling rather than being reflective of any real truth. Is that your aim here or do you genuinely like Finn?

I think it's also worth noting, that being critical of Finn's handling =/= critical of Finn the character/concept. Especially since much of the critical comments are due to the fact that they wanted Finn to be better - only for the counter argument to be "no Finn's good the way he is"

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2018, Original Post Date: May 16, 2018 ---

Except at this point I think there is more tenable ground for pessimism than optimism. I think people who said wait and see after TFA had the more valid position then. People who continue to say it now, I think may be on shaky ground. We have 2/3 rds of the ST to judge and track trajectories. "Wait and see" should give way to "hope and prepare". I have yet to see someone articulate a tenable in-movie reason to have any optimism going forward for Finn.

 

tone/content policing: that's really not what i said nor intended. you asked why i was posting and i answered from my own experience and what i know of some others. i never said you couldn't post what you wanted. i just gave you a reason why some people who actually might like Finn don't want anything to do with it.

i genuinely like Finn. i agreed that he got sidelined in TLJ and wouldn't mind actually discussing that without it devolving into tin foil hat assumptions of "agendas" from Lucasfilm. being questioned as to whether i actually like him or if i myself have some kind of agenda for posting about him is the precise kind of response that reminds me why i will happily resume not posting here. because why bother when i can talk about virtually any other character in any other thread without being questioned as to my motives.

as for wait and see, yeah: i'm going to wait and see.
because right now i don't think the character in unsalvageable, but maybe i'm just a silly optimist that way. : D

 

I understand that. What I was giving you was an alternative reason why people don't post in here: they're not really fans and could care less.

I wouldn't mind discussing Finn without it devolving into accusations that any angst was due to unwarranted investment in head cannon, not understanding Rian's vision, or that this all simply a desire to see Finn supplant Rey as the lead, but it's a forum... we don't get to prescribe how others respond. It's the cost of interaction. If you choose not to pay it here, so be it, that is your choice, but that price exists at the portal to each thread.

You would prefer that I assert it as truth rather than pose the question? If you encountered negativity in the Kylo thread would you similarly abandon it for the same reasons?

And why do you suppose that is? (genuine question). What is different about Finn and/or the people who post here vs the other threads?

I honestly don't think you have the wind at your back on this one. TLJ (indeed any middle movie of the saga) must do the work of setting up the triumph of those on a hero's journey; instead it spent it's bandwidth coddling the villain, re-imagining the original hero as a broken old man wishing for death, forcing the main lead to focus on reassembling broken people around her instead of herself, sending another lead into SW version of Ground Hog Day, and completely retconning the personality of the ace pilot. The only one who advanced was the villain, and by removing Snoke, basically removed any chance of back story and a pathway to redemption for Ben. No, I don't think when you do that in the middle saga you can somehow "thread the eye of the needle" and salvage the franchise with the last installment; not even with a time jump. But that's me. To each their own.

 

i'm sure that's also true of lots of character threads.

well then we agree, it's hard to find any sensible ground for rational discussion here. you're right, we can't control other people, hence my point about not bothering with it.

why do you even need to ask the question? i don't mean that to be antagonistic, but really, no one has ever asked me: do you really like Poe or are you just trying to promote latinos in film? or: do you really like Rey or are you just furthering Kennedy's pro-women agenda? or: do you really like Ren Ben or are you just secretly a fascist?

the mere fact that someone liking something can't be taken at face value is pretty pessimistic all on its own, i feel.

i honestly don't know. i just know that there are a number of posters in this particular thread who refuse to see Finn as anything other that a put-upon black man, a character with no interesting qualities, and comedic side-relief to white protagonists. and again, a lot of this is just my own personal experience of repeatedly trying to talk about Finn in this thread over the last two years and being shut down and shut out and other people slinging this agenda.

you may be right. but i like the characters in the ST and i like the story mostly so far, so i think there's a good chance i won't be disappointed in the end. all of the things you dislike about what Johnson did with TLJ don't really bother me at all (or i just flat out have a different perspective on them). same is true for Finn.