SPECULATION OFFICIAL Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

Great job Magnar!

 

this first bullet point is a good reminder that:

• when we talk about what Kylo Ren thinks/feels we're talking about exactly that: his experience of events ~ it may have nothing whatsoever to do with reality.
  
• that doesn't invalidate his experience so long as he persists in his delusion.
• it doesn't even necessarily invalidate it if he's shown otherwise (you can't go back in time and change how you felt).
• clarity is the fist step toward change.

someone has to call Ben on the bull (his own, Snoke's, the FO's, everything) and make him really see it for what it is.
in particular he needs to admit that he was used/manipulated by Snoke to begin with.
Han started to tell him on the bridge, but he needs to hear it from someone he can trust/connect to (or at least openly wants to).

rooting for you, Rey!

 

This! He can't hear the truth from mom or dad, or Luke either; they were too much a part of his downfall (in his view, at least). The one to reach him will be an 'outsider' - and that's Rey for sure.

 

I really want Ben's middle name to be Chewbacca.

 

Yes! His experience of events and understanding (misunderstanding) is what made him act the way he di.

Also, I will add some more of the tweets from Hidalgo yesterday, which are not listed by @MagnarTheGreat and are very telling in my opinion.

(Great job @MagnarTheGreat as always of keeping those organised)

Hidalgo made a confession that he prefers villains who enjoy being evil, like Jabba and Palpatine and quite a long conversation ensued, which was interesting and informative as I realised Hidalgo is actually guessing or assuming quite a bit of stuff himself. I would be cautious to actually take all of his tweets as definitive information.

'Confession: I like Jabba & Palpatine as villains best. They're at least enjoying themselves. I find tortured anti-heroes kinda dull.' [ Is this a passive aggressive knock on Kylo Ren?] "What makes him interesting is his bloodline. And, I like that he's a take on entitlement. That's feels fresh." [so you're not a Kylo guy huh?] "What makes Kylo interesting is his bloodline. I like that a lot." [ I like that Adam Driver doesn't see him as evil. Sees him as a guy who thinks he's doing the right thing] "Yep. I think that's what makes him scary. And the fact that a lot of people could empathize with him."; [Was Kylo being literal when he said the Skywalker lightsaber belonged to him or did he just feel entitled to it?] "Well. I'll say Kylo does a pretty good job of embodying entitlement as a character trait." [But why would Kylo feel entitled to Anakin's saber? He idolizes Vader, not weak, foolish Anakin.] "I get a sense that as the "Jedi killer" he feels he alone is heir to their legacy not some lowly scavenger."
[Good day. Did Rey & Finn hear all of the conversation that Han & Kylo had on the bridge? Big distance. ] "I doubt it."
"Manpain stories are boring." ;"Keep in mind, though, there are supposed to be villains you like, and villains you don't like. That's just how the cards fall for me."


Interesting info is that personally Hidalgo actually doesn't like the character of Kylo Ren because he is not the mustache twirling villain...
That to me is a very valuable take from last night's Tweet conversation on villains...

He took some stabs at Anakin too...For example...

You could tell he is not an Anakin fan either...(Although his points about Anakin are mostly on the mark...)

But what became evident to me yesterday is that it is very very possible Hidalgo is not fully in the know about how the character's arcs in the trilogy will develop. He probably doesn't know what the crucial twists will be or how the ST will develop. Some of his answers betray that he has opinions as a fan and I doubt that he knows what the end game is. I would take his tweets with a big grain of salt...He uses words like "I doubt it", "I get the sense", etc. that to me reads as that he is not just being vague to avoid spoilers as some assume, but that actually to some of the stuff he is also a spectator/audience and in all probability bases some of his responses on his personal interpretations, assumptions and preferences...

So, I would think we should be cautious of taking all his tweets as definitive answers...some of them are apparently his personal take and interpretation based on the info he has so far. In other words, to an extent, he is a super well informed fan, but really not the creator of these stories and I now seriously suspect that at this point he doesn't really know what will happen next and how things will develop...

 

I agree. Pablo is the only one that will answer questions sometimes from the story group, so we are only getting his perspective on things. He doesn't give away too much, and there are a lot of things that I am sure are not set in stone, but may change a bit as time or feel of the story or abilities change as well.

 

If you've picked up any of the recent canon since 2014, you'd see his name and/or the LSG on at least one of the pages or credits.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablo-hidalgo-1879745

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/10/02/meet-disneys-star-wars-maestro-kiri-hart/

http://lucasfilm.com/our-team/kiri-hart

IIRC it was Michael Arndt that said in an interview that the snow forest fight in TFA was Kiri Hart's idea, for example.

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....s-news-rumors-thread.153/page-595#post-169888

 

I have to tell you guys, I'm glad you're keeping tabs on Pablo. I for one am sick of tying myself in knots trying to interpret his oracles, so I'm relying on others with more patience to sift through them.

 

It could be worse. He could be using Carrie Fisher's hieroglyphics.

 

Entertainment Weekly - What was Kylo Ren's strange table of ashes in Star Wars: The Force Awakens?

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/05/star-wars-force-awakens-jj-abrams-kylo-ren-ashes

 

It would have been more jarring to me if they were Vader's ashes :O

 

this explains Hidalgo's joke about Hux's cat (finally!).
it never made any sense because he referred to Ren's room when the "litterbox" is actually on Starkiller in the interrogation cell.

typically you keep ashes of people/animals you love, not ones you kill: to remember, honor, mourn, and keep close.
question is: would Kylo Ren be doing it for some different purpose or the same?

depending on what culture you come from, this is either very disturbing/creepy, or rather sad/touching.
perhaps not surprisingly, i come from a culture that actually finds this potentially touching.

 

Pablo Hidalgo: "it seems there's more than one way to interpret all that [said by Driver and Abrams about Kylo Ren in the documentary]." (April 5, 2016) "I see it as he can't help but tell you how Kylo sees it. But is Kylo right?" (April 5, 2016) "You know, there is a version where Kylo isn't Han and Leia's fault. And that's if he's an awful blast." (April 5, 2016) "Actually, that was flippant. There is a version where Kylo isn't Han and Leia's fault. And that's if you believe in personal accountability." (April 5, 2016) "'Poor Kylo was lonely.' / Rey is raised by sand. Doesn't become murderer." (April 5, 2016) "Maybe it's like a certain superhero movie where someone needs to kill someone to understand it's bad." (April 5, 2016)

Quote index - Part III

 

Hidalgo is cruisin' for a bruisin'.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 6, 2016 ---

and here's the image of Kylo Ren putting his helmet in the ashes of the dead.
make of it what you will, i know what i think about it:

 

He inhales the ashes of the dead.

 

These are some quality tweets.

 

I suppose that if I kept feeling the pull to the Light, I would have stuff around to remind me how bad I am...

But I must say I think sticking this ash thing in a different scene where it doesn't belong was OTT stupid and the Millicent story is better.

 

I agree with you, I was expecting that actually and for me that would have been pretty awesome.

 

yeah, i kinda take this as sheer machismso-masochism.
as if the kid doesn't have enough issues.

though since they rejiggered it in the film, does that mean this is no longer canon?
i'd just as soon as poke Hidalgo in the eye as ask him ~ hahaha

 

Agree. I reckon we might not interpret his words literally as "oh yeah Han and Leia were terrible parents" it is more the way he would take it and how Snoke would influence him.

Join the club! It is one of the things I really want to know more about, as well as Leia's reaction and post- ROTJ treatment to the fact of being Anakin/Vader's daughter. I have a bad feeling that she did not come to terms with it at all....