SPECULATION OFFICIAL Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

What if that WAS the mission :O ?!

 

joined. they were a preexisting group, which is even more curious.
Ben had a relatively short timeframe in which to become a part of them as Kylo Ren and then take the leadership given the timeline.

 

How do you know it's a pre-existing group ?

 

because everyone has said so?
Adam Driver said it in an interview, i think it's stated in the Visual Dictionary, and it's one of the only things we actually know about the KOR.

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2016, Original Post Date: May 14, 2016 ---

Hidalgo stated that the Visual Guide was not vetted and that he would not have stated it as it's stated there.
it's been suggested elsewhere that the KOR was a preexiting group that Kylo Ren joined.

 

This is the kind of thing that is driving me crazy... Really, is it too much to ask TPTB to give us fans some solid information about things?

 

i stopped reading this after you said han solo beat his wife and child. get a grip.

 

yeah, i don't mind a little mystery, but when the whole thing is a stinkin' secret (even though it's not to the characters in the film), it starts to grate a bit.

 

Abrams said he joined the Knights of Ren.

That's also the way it happened in the leaked shooting schedule for TFA.

 

I've been partially following this discussion since my last post and I think @AstromechRecords point about Luke and running makes sense to me. He didn't run from the Emperor (who we know to be one of the most powerful Force Users in the Episodic time frame). He isn't scared, but he's been missing (from everyone else's perspective).

It makes me wonder - does Luke sense that Snoke is more powerful/dangerous than the Emperor? I mean the Emperor formed a Galactic Empire, turned "The One" Vader, to the Dark Side, presumably killed Darth Plagueis (a Sith who was said to be able to cheat death), forged 2 Death Stars, and virtually wiped out the Jedi... could anyone be more powerful/dangerous than that? It strains the imagination to think someone could be, yet we know nothing about Snoke, and we see his current student Kylo (who is unfinished in his training) do things we've never seen any other Jedi or Sith do in a movie (freeze matter and energy).

Whether or not Snoke is more powerful than Palpatine, Luke knows of his existence. Does the last Jedi really just run away and sulk knowing that's out there? No... I think he goes to the Temple to commune with Force Ghosts and Holocrons, to acquire lost techniques, to confront the new threat. He obviously has to train Rey and it's going to have to be accelerated. Kylo is going to get more training (and presumably have even more powers we haven't seen). By the end of the Trilogy I think Snoke gets offed, and Kylo becomes the de facto face of evil.

 

I think it's less that Luke is scared of Snoke and more that he's been traumatised by the actions of his nephew, it has caused him to doubt himself. Yes, he's had to deal with his father being turned to the dark side but he didn't know Anakin before his fall, the failure was felt by Obi Wan who had seen it happen and blamed himself. What Obi Wan experienced is now what Luke is experiencing except worse due to the fact that he knows Ben's parents, is related to Ben himself and lost all his other students as well. I don't think he's afraid but he's deciding on the right course of action, probably communing with Force Ghosts like you say and gathering knowledge.

I'm hoping this the twist for VIII. We're all having discussions now over whether Ben will be redeemed but imagine if for most of the film we're being lead to believe that Kylo is doubting the dark side and moving towards the light (maybe even helping the heroes) before killing Snoke. Initially the audience and the heroes would believe that Ben was redeemed and that they had triumphed before the realisation sinks in that Kylo has simply taken Snoke's place as ruler of the FO.

The evolution/journey of the villain.

 

You're cold. Love it. Don't change.

Spoiler: Bloodline

Well, it's safe to say he hasn't had his darkside comming out party yet, so that must have happened between the events of Bloodline and TFA. Luke's order has not yet been destroyed durring the timeline of the novel, and Ben is still training and travelling about with Luke at this time.

Was Ben in the closet in regards to his dark side tendencies, skillfully hiding it from those around him? Or was his fall a dramatic and rapid one? Either option is problematic. Did he manage to successfully keep Luke Skywalker in the dark as to what he was really up too? I mean, I'm talking about THE Luke Skywalker here. I have trouble seeing it, obviously. Kylo Ren is not Mr Self Control, how would he manage that for any length of time? It's feasible Snoke helped him with that, I guess, with his dark smoke screen powers. Nope, even then, I doubt Ben could manage that. But then, if his fall was rapid, how was Snoke watching him and pulling Benny's tightly wound strings from the beginning? We obviously get a few clues in Bloodline as to what the catalyst for his descent was, but I want to know more. Probably that the same event kicked off his full blown Vader worshipping phase too.

I hate myself for loving this.

 

hahaha ~ i like chaos, at heart.

seems like he was troubled before they sent him to Luke (that's what Leia insinuates). we just don't know when that was or how troubled he was. or even what that "troubled" looked like (was he just sulky? did he have a temper? was he aggressive? destructive? or maybe just self-isolating ~ we just don't know what caused that concern).

Leia also insinuates that Snoke had some influence on whatever was going on with him (that they maybe at the time chalked up to hormones, brattiness, whatever). and for all we know he was better/doing okay with Luke up until he found out about Vader.

i agree with you that Ren Ben isn't subtle about his feelings. so he must have either:

• been stable enough to manage himself.
  
• have told Luke about Snoke if Snoke was involved (which is maybe how Leia found out)
• and/or he was with Luke for a lot less time than we imagine.

i can see that second option maybe being the case if, in fact, Snoke was messing with him. even if Ben couldn't articulate it well, Luke might have actually known and was in the process of trying to help him when the Vader business went down. alternate take on that: Leia knew and told Luke to begin with.

point is: they might have known but thought it could be dealt with through training, which all got wreckt when Ben felt lied to.[/QUOTE]

 

[/QUOTE]


I not entirely convinced about that. I think there will be an event between Bloodline and TFA that's like a lightbulb moment for Leia and/or Luke where they realise Snokes is influencing Ben, and then the dots are connected into the past to understand the extent of that influence. I think Smoke is too shifty for anyone to be too wise as to what he's been up too. At most, I reckon they might have thought Ben was a bit shady.

 

if Snoke was clever enough i can see him going unnoticed. it's really more about Ben's specific behavior. especially if he was a teen when he got sent away, i can see them totally dismissing any sort of acting out as him just being immature, over-sensitive, weird about his FS.

a lot really depends on how old he was when he went off to Luke. i feel like Gray in Bloodline and the writers in general have struggled with the fact that he was likely designed to be younger than they ended up casting him, which makes his overall behavior much stranger and the timeline feel kinda awkward.

 

Meh. I know lots of guys in there thirties with no emotional intelligence who still behave like teenagers. This is no biggy.

 

hahaha ~ that's true too. he could be deliberately stunted.

it's just particularly striking in this world where children are trained to be Jedi and little girls are queens.
makes poor Ben seem kinda...[well, there is no good pc term these days, is there?]

 

Lol, I can just see little Ben with the other kids at school "My Mum said I'm Force Special, so nerny nery na naa!"

 

ughh...poor Ben.

Kylo Ren probably still wears footed pajamas and drinks out of a sippy cup. no wonder Hux hates him.

 

Don't. Even.

Or Force-users like Ahsoka. Agree it is totally possible.

Hopefully! #TeamSaveBenSolo

From the Vader Down series, I recall they show Darth Vader walking around the Vrogas Vas Jedi temple ruins and hearing voices from the past, but not exactly seeing Force-ghosts. So maybe Dark Side users cannot interact with Force-ghosts:

Thanks for reminding me to go finish that fanfic about young Ben going to Yavin 4.

It would be nice to think that Ben met him when he was traveling around with Luke. It would look sort of like this in my headcanon: