Problems with the Sequel Trilogy So Far...

My initial biggest annoyance with TLJ is how quickly Rey jumps to empathize with Kylo and totally disrespects Luke Skywalker, verbally and physically, not only striking at him and causing him to fall backward while demanding answers, but then igniting a lightsaber. That was way over the line, I thought, and without much justification, I felt.

I still somewhat feel that way, but I'm also thinking that:

1. somehow, in/since TFA, Rey got more than a passing glimpse of Kylo's mind and therefore was on a Force-fast-track to empathize with him in a manner most would consider too quickly

2. Snoke declared responsibility for linking their minds and perhaps played a bit of puppetmaster there, tugging on their strings to draw them together to suit his own interests

I could see why Daisy felt she had to talk with Rian after first reading the script. Understandably, her previously all-too-likeable character was about to enter some very questionable emotional territory and take action against a beloved hero like Luke.

Honestly, I doubt subsequent viewings are going to make this less of bothersome plot point / characterization development for me, but it's always good to remain open-minded.

Imagine if it is revealed in IX that Snoke is indeed an ultimate puppetmaster and still somehow influential beyond Kylo's ability to understand or to match.

What feeds that notion is the continuance of Rey and Kylo's Force-mind link, which Snoke said he created. That it was still around after the throne room scene gives rise to wonder.

I felt the same right after viewing TFA. I waited and waited for Luke, and it was heartbreaking to see just a glimpse at the end. I had many questions, almost too many, and waiting two years for answers or theories which didn't quite pan out was indeed an interesting experience.

But, I did keep peeling away at it, and I'm glad I did. Few things survive extended scrutiny. Star Wars has always been largely rewarding when we apply deeper analysis and interpretation to the saga storyline, its archetypal and mythical elements, etc..

I still have some more "peeling" to do with TLJ. It did not go the way I thought (thanks for the heads up, Luke!), but it did not come anywhere close to my "worst nightmare" scenario (e.g. Luke going full Dark Side or being Snoke, Rey falling to the Dark Side).

One thing it has shown me so far is that the expectations have a direct relationship with the actual reception and appreciation of the film.

If things go partly to mostly the way we hoped, we might tend to like the film.

If the film challenges our perceptions and expectations -- in good and justified ways -- then that can be even more satisfactory.

So much of this comes down to how invested we allow ourselves to become in how we feel the story should go.

So many fans wanted OT characters out of the way, while many older OT fans preferred far better fates for their favorites.

I don't think these preferences have to be mutually exclusive: old can and should coexist with new. Old has value just as New does.

It remains my hope that Rey will need some wisdom from Luke or Yoda. She can't naturally know it all, even as she did grab the manuscripts from the tree.

Those will not tell her what Luke could. Experience -- oldness -- still has great value.

So, not "let the past die, kill it if you have to," as Kylo said, but "Let the past educate. Study it if you must."

IX has a chance to build upon this notion, if they dare.

 

As a dude who loved (LOVED) both TFA and TLJ (especially TLJ, that sh1te was BOLD) I do have some problems with the trajectory of this trilogy.

I think not having a time jump may have hurt the film in some ways. A year or five 'between stories' can go a long way towards jumping forward with very little explanation. "It's five years later, so yeah!!"

I'm a huge fan of one villain per trilogy. I think this sunk the PT to a degree (plus most of the villains were weak to varying degrees.....Maul may be my least favorite though most would disagree)

I am interested to see where Kylo goes though. After killing Han he's almost irredeemable so it will be an interesting ride.

The universe does feel awful small right now. Again, I loved the heck out of TLJ....it may be my favorite in fact, but the ENTIRE resistance fitting in the Falcon? I mean.....I just......it seems like.........I mean...........how???

I love JJ (again, against popular opinion) but that pitch he made to Disney.............I can't even imagine how he can reconstruct what RJ deconstructed (in a great and satisfying way mind you)

Ep 9 may be the heaviest lift yet.

 

I think the ST has the worst looking lightsabers. The ones in the prequels look so much better because of the way they move when the actors swing them. They move like the blade is weightless, but in the new ones you can tell that the blade has mass and you can sense air resistance when the actor swings it. The center of gravity should be at the hilt in a true lightsaber, but because the new practical sabers have heavier blades than the sticks they used to use, it just looks and feels wrong to me. Just doesn't feel as dynamic and exciting.

 

While I didn't notice this I appreciate those with such an eye for detail. Good work!!

 

They didn't explain the Empire either not until much later in the films. If you read Bloodline . . .

Spoiler: Bloodline

. . . the New Republic suffers political gridlock between the Populists and the Centrists. Many of the Centrists hate the old Empire but fear lawlessness. Other factions within the Centrists are actively laying the ground work for the 1st Order, funding it through criminal cartels and back channels. Leia forms the Resistance at the end fearing that something was about to rise to destroy the New Republic.

 

Reading is for NERDS.

 

Lightsabers were meant to be heavy from the start. One of many things that the PT retconned.

"Hamill then explains that the lightsabers were meant to be heavy.
George was adamant that these things were really, really heavy, that we couldn't take a hand off, that we always had to have two like Excalibur with 40 to 50 pounds of weight.

Lucas continues
They were very powerful and a lot of energy in them, and so you worked with them as if they were heavy because when they crash together they make explosions and all kinds of things.”

 

The big issue I have with the ST is consistency. he OT had this issue, but really what made it work was that the characters and the main plotline of Luke and Vader were consistent.

It made so that way even a film like ROTJ, which to many is the weakest of the OT(personally, it is my favorite SWs film) impactful because Luke and Vader had their final bout and it was about Luke trying to save his own father.

The Force Awakens, like it or not, set up a lot of mystery boxes and plotlines. And I don't like that stuff. But for fairness, Rian Johnson should have respected stuff like that. Namely, The Knights of Ren, Lor San Tekka, the map to Skywalker. And before anyone can strawman me, I don't think the movie needed to give a full explanation, but at the very least touch on that. And given how Rian Johnson wrote this movie without seeing The Force Awakens, it makes this more evident and LF in my view dropped the ball big time.

Because, I like TLJ, but as its own thing. As a followup to TFA, it is really bad. Also, the lack of world-building in the movies irritates me. And please, don't give me the excuse of the New Canon. One, shouldn't require exterior material to make better sense of a movie. A movie, book or any property should have its own internal consistency so as it can be approached by anyone. It is why I can enjoy the OT and even the PT(to a degree) as just movies or with the added knowledge of Legends or the New Canon.

Overall, my hope is that LucasFilm due to the divisiveness of The Last Jedi and everything around it, manages to learn its lessons from this ST.

 

One of my biggest issues with the ST so far has been the lack of alien species developed for the OT/PT. Its nice to see new aliens but at the same time we need a little bit of what were familiar with in the GFFA or else it feels like a different galaxy. With todays advances in Visual FX makeup they could even riff off old designs a little to make them fresh.

 

A few things-

1) These are sequels. The OT wasn’t. It isnt unreasonable to expect some explanation as to how things are so terrible again.

2) No one should have to read extra material to enjoy a movie.

3) I haven’t read the books, but the brief synopsis of traitors/empire sympathizers within the new republic sounds a lot more original than rebels/resistance versus empire/first order part 2.

 

they should have went with jason wards pitch....in it jason ward describes that the republic was still at war with the first order, with the first order at deaths door but planets still sympathetic to it because of deadlock in the senate, the first order decides to do a last hurrah and not only goes after the map to luke skywalker but also does starkiller base.


this is why this is better

a continous war for thirty years means a more post-apocalyptic star wars, with a fragile republic, and countless potential for "legends" style stories. it also allows for the plot for the ST to be more self explanatory. the resistance is born when starkiller base destroys the republic capitol, the failure theme of TLJ is enriched, luke han and leia has countless adventures before the events of TFA.

TLJ also becomes a bit darker....just a day ago the resistance was basically the marines of the massive republic army, but ever since the destruction of the capitol of the republic the republic army is being forced to defend individual planets(since it is decentralized).

 

What else was in this pitch?

The other problem is they’ve made everything seem so small.

Planets are just around the corner from each other.

The republic wiped out in a matter of minutes in TFA, and now the resistance can fit into the falcon (lol)

It’s terrible.

The empire felt huge. The rebellion felt big as well.

 

It wasn't unreasonable to show the bloated corruption of the Senate and how it left systems like Naboo vulnerable but many people object to the focus on the politics in the film. (which I actually didn't mind).

True but I was pointing out that the simple archetypal formulas of the story offer explanation. We understand empires with little explanation. In the ST the 1st order should jump out as militant resurgent clone attempting to claim the Empire's mojo; the Holy Roman empire, the Byzantine, the 3rd Reich. The explanation is interesting to fans but irrelevant to the drama of the characters in the story. Why explain what is obvious.

 

jason ward was merely speculating

 

The main problem is that they are rehashing from OT. They need to come up with something new.

 

The prequels made the lightsabres lighter than they're meant to be, but I prefer that anyway. The new trilogy makes them really weighty and ugly to wield.

 

I will have to say I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

The OT and PT light sabers are hard to watch for me because they cast no glow/cause no shadows. You don't realize how wrong it is until you've seen it done correctly, then it is hard to go back.

If I can find it, I will share it, but there was a great article or feature done about the scientific weight of a light saber in relation to the force that would be exerted by the blade.

But, the weight thing doesn't bother me one way or the other. The lack of glow is something I notice every time I watch the OT or PT. I can forgive the OT a lot for it, not the PT. So for me the ST saber stuff is far better.