Regarding Rey's rock moving skills...

Oh forget it. People will only say am being negative and trolling. Just because am upset it doesn't mean I have fallen out love with star wars. But my god some of the writing has been weak. Am sorry to the people who think am being a Rian basher it's just to me I think Lucasfilm have got this part of the story wrong and characters motivation handled badly.

 

I would be absolutely fine with this. I just need a reason why the actions of Rey do not contradict canon. For the time being her fast progression dimishes all the acomplishments and hard training we saw in previous Canon. Your solution wuld be prefect. Rey could split a whole planet in half and I wouldn't take issue with it if it is established that the very fabric of the force has changed. If they made this clearer, maybe in form of a prophecy predicted in the jedi books or by a forcepriestes having a little chat with Rey I would be perfectly happy.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2017 ---

I'm okay with this but it needs to be explained. Not in form of some ambiguous quote by Snoke who couldn't even foresee his own death. Not an ambiguous quote by a disillusioned Luke who has only met like a dozen of forceusers in his entire life. So far the Canon has been constant. The rapid change in how randomly and how quickly the force can be mastered needs to be adressed properly. Once Disney does this you will see the "mary sue" complaints dissapear.

 

No people say that because you give neg reps to innocuous comments like "I like this thread" and "Thank you Rian Johnson"

 

As I've mentioned in another thread: Some fans are much better at coming up with solutions and explanations than the actual filmmakers.

Sadly, just because many fans say "this could be explained in this way" doesn't mean it will be explained in that way. It's just fan theories.

 

Yeah this little ditty. While not in the movie used to build up expectation. Yeah gotcha. You got Punked.

 

It really doesn't. It never was before.
When they started explaining it fans tuned out. It just "is" the force is better off left unexplained. It's mysterious and otherworldly.

No the Mary Sue complaints will never die. Too many of them stem from the fact that Rey is a lady not a gentleman. It isn't that way for everyone, but enough of them. It should be of no shock that the Peedunky who started the "Rey is a Mary Sue" thing is currently being accused of sexual assault and has a past of being shitty to women covered up by his father's much more considerable pull in Hollywood. That's who started all this. The term Mary Sue was relegated to fanfic forums and stuff like that. Then in 2015, this asshat makes it a point to bring it up many times and now it's a common place term in the lexicon.

So, I've never taken any of those complaints seriously knowing how they started.
shrug

 

I think JJ's intention was to make Rey a Skywalker. Rian had another vision, he wanted to be bold for the sake of being bold.

 

For the sake of movie's theme.

 

It's not mysterious and otherwordly IMO, it's just plain ridiculous. But each to their own.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2017 ---

I don't think so. The movie is crammed with "gotcha!" moments from start to finish. It's definitely more about being bold for the sake of being bold.

 

I have theorethical canon explaination for this for months,but am been critcised for heresy with nearly zero support.

There are people on forgotten planet Lew'ell,the sea planet with islands ,where lives isolated tribe of humans who are very strong in the Force,and manifest it even as children.
.There, a 12 yr.girl and other children already teached Luke some unknown to him ways of the Force,as well as fishing with long spears that Luke uses many years later on Ahch-To.(TLJ film).
.And that girl ,Aya,promissed to see the galaxy one day,to help restore balance.
As a grown woman she went to find Luke.

"Legends of Luke Skywalker"novel.
Intriguing new character named Aya

 

The force is not explained in detail but it is also not random and that is an important aspect of it. We see people use the force all the time and before Rey the force always required years of practice, there was lalways a master/apprentice relationship and an X-wing or some flying saucer in the senate was the most impressive display of telekinesis in Canon. Rey completely turns these expectations that are based on previous observations upside down for no reason at all. There's no reasonw hy Rey had to lift a whole landslide of rocks. Why not just one bolder or so or crack open the stone to let people squeeze through (which would have been a nice little nod to Luke's training).

As for the Mary Sue some people do this because of sexism but they are few. Most people use this expression because Rey is too perfect in everything. Anakin was strong but also arrogant and selfish and angry. He was powerful but murdered chidlren which is why people didn't call him a Gary Stu (yes there is a MALE version of this expression). I have never seen people call Jyn Erso a mary sue. She was capable but at the same time she started out as a coward ("it's not a problem if you don't look up...") and she cared only about herself. Fans of Rey will happily accuse other people of sexism (a pretty heavy accusation if I might add) instead of listening to their actual criticism.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2017 ---

I doa gree with you that there might be evidence out there but you have to keep in mind that 99% of people watching TLJ have never read and will never read this novel. The movies themselves need to be consistent, they must not rely on additional media to make sense. If they fail to explain Rey's power in the movies then the vast majority of people won't understand it because they don't read these novels which is why it would ultimately still be bad wrting.

 

Then why isn't Jyn Erso called a Mary Sue? Because Jyn isn't perfect, she's a very likeable, well-written character. It has nothing to do with sexism, but it's a popular thing to shout of when you run out of other arguments.

Not to say that there aren't people out there who actually has something against Rey being a woman, but that's a completely different thing.

 

No, Rey's origin is tied directly to one of the themes that run through the film, which is that you don't need to be of a certain origin to be a hero. Additionally, her parents being dead, poor and ultimately meaningless ties into Rey's greatest fear - a lack of sense of belonging. A fear that she ultimately overcomes becoming a fully-fledged member of the Resistance by caring for the future of the organisation and helping it out in its most desperate hour. The twists in The Last Jedi aren't just WTF moments, they are clearly set up and tie into specific characters' story arcs, their fears and expectations.

 

Luke lives from fishing using long spears and milks Sirens on Ahch-To using teachings from Lew'ell.


Intriguing new character named Aya

 

I don’t think this is necessarily the case. Shortly after TFA came out I was listening to a panel that JJ was doing. He was discussing the movie. During the panel he discussed about how Rey’s character was meant to be a girl who came from nowhere and becomes a Jedi. I don’t remember what panel it was but during this panel he also discussed Kasdan coming up with the idea of Finn being a defecting stormtrooper. Her being meant to be a Skywalker would be counter to her coming from nowhere. Daisy also said in the lead up to TLJ she has known Rey’s parentage for a few years. She also on multiple occasions before both movies discussed that where Rey is going is more important to the story the. Where she came from. Again this is counter to her being a Skywalker.

I think what happened was that JJ wanted to give us cues that Rey was going to be the “new Luke”, our new hero. In the process of giving us similarities between the two, many in the fandom misinterpreted the similarities as pointing to them being related when that was not the case.

 

Ok well why make this mystery box implying she is someone relative? It is established you don't have to be of a special bloodline to be a Jedi. This is nothing new.

Maybe Ghost Yoda should have appeared to her and gave her some advice since Luke didn't want to.

Anything besides she can move rocks just because Luke told her the Jedi don't own the force and rubbed a leaf on her hand. Or absorbed it from Kylo Ren somehow.

 

Those are two straw-men both concerning my point and Rian Johnson's.
Treating the force as narrative commodity that is quantifiable and mostly traded through inheritance mechanics flies in the face of the thematic underpinning of the OT - which is why Midichlorians and the Chosen One idea don't add but subtract from the concept in those ways (quantifiability and heritage).
I merely pointed out that some people are lucky enough to be unburdened by that shift of focus; a shift of focus that the ST actively tries to negate.

As to your reading of the OT I will just have to repeat that your perception, that what I said was in anyway contradicted with what you pointed out is a straw-man.
Ben is the dynastic bearer of your thematic complex in the OT and even before TLJ, Rey could be read as being the symmetrical counterpoint to that thematic complex in many, then surface level - now actualized and spelled out, ways.
I won't even comment on the creative constriction of reading Star Wars as a soap opera in space (which is what your reading of the OT ultimately amounts to if reduced to first principles) - how George ever thought of that analogy in light of what he attempted to portray with the prequels is beyond me.

PS
I'm not being obtuse on purpose, just having trouble with my English and am not sufficiently caffeinated.

 

I like the idea that Shmi lied about her Virgin birth. It would make sense from a female's slave point of view, as some of her value could be in that fact.

In our real world, people question virgin birth as a matter of course, and that's countering, challenging or outright rejecting some people's belief system and faith. If we as a people can do that in our real world, why not question it in SW?

Not to contradict you, it might have something to do with the bloodline of the Chosen One. Correct me if I'm wrong, but our only real example of hereditary force ability are the Skywalkers.

 

Look no matter how you turn this when the OT was created bloodlines and hereditary forceabilities were clearly Lucas' intention. I'm not saying that force abilities can't randomly be discovered by people who are in no way related to a former forceuser but there is a clear focus on "family" in the OT and the PT. Star Wars is now for it's small galaxy, all main characters are in one way or another connected. In this context it was reasonable for fans to assume that Rey had to be someone special since she clearly displays all characteristics associated with a "chosen one ". There's a reason why so many theories were created concernig Rey's and Snoke's background. TLJ is deliberately breaking with this tradition that is obvious to anyone who has been watching SW over the decades. Your gf doesn't know of the small universe, the importance of the skywalker bloodline in the OT and PT, books and comics and animated series. Of course she wouldn't recognize how TLJ turned these traditions upside down but anyone familiar with the franchise did. Why do you think that we've heard so many times hof TLJ is different, going in a new direction. Why do you think so many fans were surprised by Rey's parentage or Snoke's death (for better or worse). Rian was breaking with traditions by playing with out expectations. Expectations shaped by previous SW content which your gf is unfamiliar which is the reason why she can't understand why people were so focused on Rey's parentage.