Rian Johnson talk about the changes to the Force in TLJ

I agree, I think Rian took too many liberties with the Jedi and the force.. no one should be allowed to alter the rules of an established universe like that.

I'm disappointed in the Lucasfilm braintrust for not shutting him down on some things.. despite me liking the film.

 

What exactly did he alter?

 

Luke's lack of optimism
Force projection
The way force ghosts can now interact with the physical world
Rey's insane force abilities after zero real training
Yoda's force ghost personality (which came off like Rian hadn't paid attention to ESB)

 

It's funny, everything you said in this post, was wrong.

 

Nice argument man.

 

1. Nobody is as optimistic at age 60 as at age 25. Add to that the Jedi religion isn't exactly one of hope or inclusiveness. Yoda speaks of passing on what Luke learned in the OT, not what was in the old books. "Page turners they were not".
2. Why wouldn't someone as powerful as Luke, who is at the first Jedi temple which was powerful in the force, not be able to do that? There was a form of force projection in ESB when Luke fights Vader in the cave on Dagobah. It felt real to him and it looked real.
3. Rey is gifted. The force is partially guiding her actions. Who knows what she was doing off screen. Some people are just Mozart or Beetoven and can just play. Some are gifted with numbers and can just do complicated equations with little study. Let it go, you'll feel better.
4. Yoda's force ghost personality was dead on aligned with ESB and ROTJ Yoda. I can't believe you don't see or understand that. Yoda evolved a great deal from prequel Yoda. He learned from his failures and taught them to Luke.

 

i actually don't see Luke as lacking optimism. it's just tempered by reality.
he knows it's not his job in this time and place to resolve everything.
but he also acknowledges that it is his job to give this new generation the inspiration and hope so that they can resolve it.

 

Mozart: refined his talent since early childhood.
Rey: started pulling mind control out of her ass after being immersed in the Force for all of 5 minutes.

Even Mozart had to refine his talents. He didn't write Requiem as a child.

 

1. She may have heard about Jedi Mind tricks listening to junk dealers and traders telling stories. She heard of the Myth Luke Skywalker, she's heard of the Jedi. Which means she's heard of what the Jedi can do.
2. When Kylo entered her mind and she was able to see into his, this was an enlightening moment for her. She probably thought, if I could resist him, maybe I can do the same thing.
3. She tried the mind trick and failed twice before getting it to work.

 

You don't become proficient at a skill through osmosis. You actually have to practice it before you can ever hope to apply it well.

By this logic, Mozart should have started composing Requiem after hitting the keys a couple of times within a span of 15 seconds and then trying a third time and managing to compose it successfully at the age of 5. What a farce.

 

My only issue with the force in this non-EU world is how easy it is for non-trained people to tap into extremely powerful skills. Yes, Michael Jordon has a natural talent for basketball, but it took him years of training and work to become Michael Jordon. Right now, zero training and you too can move mountains of boulders if the Force wants you to.

 

The worst part is how the creators condescend towards you with this pseudo-egalitarian narrative on how the Force belongs to everyone and yet the protagonist coasts by solely on talent while the villain, despite his malicious aims, actually worked to finally achieve his goals through a decade's worth of training and preparation.

 

Anakin Skywalker won Pod races thanks to his force given Jedi reflexes. He could see the images on Mace Windu's data pad at 8 years old with NO TRAINING. I'm so over people wanting to see the training for every single ability. Using the force is about discipline of the mind. Some have it. Some need to work at it. Luke needed to work at it because his mind was always elsewhere. Rey is super focused and determined at everything she does. Very different mind approaches. Some need training, others can just play.

The majority of your comment is your own speculation. We don't know what Ben Solo could do before training with Luke. Jedi training is not just how to lift rocks.

 

The only person we've ever followed through their training besides Rey is Luke. One person out of the thousands and thousands of Jedi over the course of millennia. Luke is not a "rule" for the entire universe.

 

By "force grabbing" he's talking about moving objects using the force, which was not seen until Empire Strikes Back. We then saw force lightning in ROTJ, which hadn't been seen before.

Stop using that as fuel to go against Rian.

 

Yeah, he was pretty great at those mostly noncombative Force abilities that wouldn't help him later on when he ends up receiving grievous wounds at the hands of someone who was a more intelligent and well-versed combatant who probably trained more than he did and was generally far less temperamental. It's how his master read his technique like a book and capitalized on it in order to defeat him despite Anakin supposedly having more potential.

You see, it goes back to that whole practice vs. sheer talent problem.

Yeah, especially mind control, amirite?

There is no such thing. You don't just play. You need some actual familiarity through some kind of attempt at applicability before you gain anything approaching proficiency.

 

This statement assumes the difficulty in tricking a Storm Trooper is the equivalent to writing a symphony. For a force user, it's probably an easy thing to learn. Simply believe what you are saying and focus on who you are saying to.

 

Yeah, that's how you can master manipulating people into doing whatever you want. Just believe in yourself.

Let's just totally ignore that 4 year span of time before Luke could manage it.

 

How would you show the training of someone learning mind control? It really sounds like an interesting thing to watch. YAWN.

Throughout human history there are many people that were gifted enough to be able to do something without tons and tons of training. You can't teach talent, you can simply improve it.

You don't teach the kid to throw a baseball 90mph in High School. His talent is the reason he can do it and other can't.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure it was perfectly aligned. Yoda in TESB acted all nuts but the point was he wasn't actually like that, he was just testing Luke. He was actually really quite serious. In TLJ he is laughing and acting a bit nuts again which doesn't make much sense. HOWEVER, I bloody loved the scene and although it isn't exactly right what they did, it worked. And what he said about masters and failure was fantastic and a perfect final speech for our little green friend.