Significance of Kylo Ren's Rey Freak Out

Pirates franchise from Disney .

 

In the novelization, the first time Kylo Ren says her name is during the mind interrogation.

 

What if Kylo knows that is was Vader who removed the Jedi temple map bit from the Imperial Archives and put the map on a memory stick he kept, so it wouldn't get destroyed by the technocratic Empire? Some time before ANH? Would that be factually possible? Then maybe that's the kind of role Kylo is going for.

 

More interesting questions:

What is so special about this girl that Ben's heard so much about her?
Who did he hear so much about her from? (Hearing doesn't sound like knowledge gleaned himself)
Was what he heard myth, rumor, history, or prophecy?
Was what he heard so much about told to him from first hand experience?

 

to be honest, the more i watch and look at the text, the more i think too much is being made of this line.

Kylo Ren is being snarky. he's demonstrated this snarkiness throughout the film (and let's face it, snark is doubly in his genes ~ ha!). it's the same thing he does with Poe: "i didn't realize we had the best pilot in the Resistance" and Hux: "your men are highly trained in desertion" (or whatever the exact line is, i fergit).

Rey is the girl he's "heard so much about" because she has been tied to their chase after deserter FN-2187 and BB-8. she's a mystery because no one knows why she's caught up in all this.

and when he catches her on Takodana, the only thing remarkable about her is that she's seen the map, that's what tells him she must be special then, and not just some scavenger girl. so he takes her in instead of catching the droid.

she becomes more remarkable, of course, once he realizes she is FS. that's when he starts to suspect that she is what has caused the ripple in the Force. and then when she grabs the lightsaber, he knows it.

 

You may be right here....hmmmm

 

Exactly!!! I think Kylo has a secret agenda and what scares him the most is that Snoke might be on to him.

 

I suppose the destruction of Luke's temple was some kind of blast test Snoke put Kylo through, but Kylo didn't go through with it as ordered. He's managed to cover it up for a long time but now the cracks are showing and Snoke is onto him.

 

i don't think Kylo Ren is capable of that depth of subterfuge. he clearly tries to get away with preventing himself pain, but it's demonstrated throughout the film that however much he's strong in the Force, he's weak emotionally and dependent on Snoke.

if he truly has a specific strategic agenda against Snoke, he's doing a lousy job of covering it. worse still, if he's in league with Luke on this, then Luke is an idiot (and a huge jerkface) for sending someone so vulnerable and unhinged to do this job. hahaha

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2016 ---

hahaha ~ sorry about that.

i've gone from one end of believing to the complete opposite over so many viewings, so i now how you feel!

 

If he was like 15 at the time of the blast test, of course his planning would have been awful.
And, no, I certainly don't believe Luke was in on this! Luke probably said he couldn't get a lightsaber yet and Kylo would complain bla bla like Luke on Dagobah, and Snoke would whisper in the shadows "Hey, I'll train you and make you a knight if you ruin your uncle's life". Which Kylo didn't quite have the heart to do...

Edit: Han says Ben was Luke's apprentice. Last time I checked, apprentices were supposed to accompany their masters everywhere - even home. Snoke's long con may have been to make Ben so difficult that his mother sent him to Luke. Snoke could spy on Luke via Ben. Ben may have realised he was a pawn at the time he " betrayed" Luke.

 

To me what is important is what best fits the story?

The story is a family drama. The story is of the Skywalkers, three generations of powerful feelers. The Skywalkers greatest strength and their weakness is their love for their family and friends. Think back to the Skywalkers actions throughout the previous six movies. Luke abandoning his training to save his friends on Cloud City, Darth Vader saving Luke from Emperor, Anakin going on a murderous rampage after the death of his mother, Anakin turning to the dark side to save Padme, even Leia (the most level-headed Skywalker) temporally abandons her cause with the Rebellion to save the man she loves. These are individuals who when it comes to those they love their actions are driven by emotion not logic for good or evil.

So with Kylo Ren and Rey what best fits the story and gives the best family drama? Let's look at the character's and their motivations.

We know Kylo Ren was seduced by Snoke to the dark side but we also know that he is still "tempted by the light" and that his weakness (and possible redemption) is toward his family. The line "what girl?" and his anger are key. Would a younger confused Kylo Ren be able to kill a five year old (?) family member who he may even love. Would he kill his partners-in-crime the Knights of Ren so there is no witnesses to his moment of mercy therefore hiding his deed from Snoke. Would he take her somewhere neither her father or Snoke would think to look? Would he leave her with someone who would make sure she never rose above her current situation therefore never discovering her true identity and the fact she is force sensitive? Would he tell her that her family is coming back so she needs to wait and never leave?

To me to all these questions is yes, Kylo Ren would.

So what about Luke Skywalker?

Would Luke leave his daughter or (less likely niece) with a shady junk dealer? Falsely promising to return one day? Even if he thought he was protecting her?

The Luke Skywalker we know? Nah.

So think about these four key scenes:

The "what girl?" scene with Kylo and First Order officer

Rey's lightsaber vision

Kylo killing Han

and most importantly final scene with Luke and Rey. What if this is father and daughter? What if it is Luke looking at daughter thought long lost? Dead at the hands of his nephew. So great was the loss that he went into hiding unable to deal with the grief. This final scene emotional impact is suddenly greatly increased. Rather some random girl finding him and giving him back his lightsaber.

I really like the idea that Kylo spares Rey and puts her on Jakku because it makes his character more interesting plus Luke and Rey's characters. It serves the story and it should.

 

while your reasoning is sound and i really believed this to be the case at first too, the timeline does not appear to bear this theory out.

apparently Ben did not betray Luke until he was in his early twenties (23-24 is the rough estimate).

Rey was put on Jakku when she was about 5 years old (7 at most).

there's a 10-year age difference between the two, which means Ben would have been a teenager when Rey was abandoned on Jakku.

the numbers just don't add up.

unless there's some other reason that Ben would have been involved in Rey's abandonment prior to the betrayal and becoming Kylo Ren, the two events cannot be reconciled.

 

Your logic is sound. But that is the problem. When did time and age really matter to the narrative of Star Wars?

Darth Vader should only be 40's on at the end of ROTJ. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Lars age an extra twenty years between trilogies. Luke becomes a near-full Jedi after a weekend with Yoda? Rey awakens her force powers and run around doing jedi stuff that should have taken years of training?

Think like a screenwriter: what best serves the narrative?

 

the problem with Vader's and Obi-Wan's ages is due to bad storytelling in the PT. it's not purposeful. as for the rate at which people ascend the Jedi way, there's no "rule" in Star Wars that says some people can't learn faster or have more natural aptitude than others. just as human beings mature into their skills at different rates, the Force need not be any different.

thinking like a screenwriter: it does not make any sense to ignore chronological reality to bend the story (again, that way lies the PT and all of its irreconcilable problems with the OT). the ST specifically appears to be returning the narrative of Star Wars to an accessible logic (shuttering the midichlorians and leaving other confusing time and action matters in the dust).

the timeline we are working with now is the one that was specifically created for this narrative for events between ROTJ and TFA. it's not a re-imagined past like Lucas' PT or something the creators got saddled with which they may choose to jettison. it's part of a cohesive plan for the forward action of the Star Wars universe.

and as it stands now, Ben would have had to ditch Rey on Jakku when he was 15-16 years old, which means her abandonment can't have had anything to do with his betrayal of Luke, which wouldn't happen until nearly a decade later.

it's not impossible for him to be responsible (and again: i was a huge proponent of this theory early on because it makes so much sense in certain contexts).

but knowing now the order of events, it feels more and more unlikely.

 

Honestly, if the choice is between logical continuity among all the new canon and making a more fascinating story. The filmmakers will go with fascinating story nearly every time. Yes, there will be hardcore fans pointing out the error of the filmmakers logic, but as long as the logical error isn't blatantly obvious (like a twenty year gap) to the causal viewer most filmmakers will say: so what?