Snoke , Master of the Dark side from the shadow.

If it is Plagueis and not a rip off (and that is a big if) then he has to be revealed in this trilogy so they can end the Skywalker story. It started with Plagueis dicking around with Shmi's (pron: shmee or shmy) midis and by the eight-legged spaghetti monster it needs to end with the destruction of this chief puppeteer.

 

I am still convinced that Snoke has something to do with Plagueis. Maybe he is some form of Plagueis (like a regenerating cloned body of him) rather than the original Plagueis which is why Disney denies this theory. But that doesn't mean much. Technically Obi Wan died in ANH. Still he came back in Form of a forceghost. They could do the same with Snoke. Technically it's not the original Plagueis but some other form of him. Also one thing that I think a lot of people forget is that Snoke is obsessed with riches and can afford huge space stations and ships. If I remeber correctly Plagueis was a Muun in legends and the Muun were the leaders of the banking clan.

 

Indeed. Plagueis, or rather Hego Demask, was wealthy. He had great riches. Again - if you take a look at the non-canon Plagueis novel, it is stacked full of stuff that could be applied to Snoke.

They could tie in Snoke so beautifully. Not just into the Skywalker story but that of the Empire vs Rebellion/Resistance. If Plagueis knew that only Sidious could take over the galaxy (politically) and decided to step back there is so much more he could've been doing behind the scenes. He could've been profiteering from the great civil war - allowing him to build up his own First Order. He could've been plotting against Sidious. And of course he would've wanted to wait until his rivals were weakened or better still, dead.

The alternative, Snoke just being a newbie from somewhere in the Unknown Region is pathetic in my opinion - not to mention contradictory.

 

@master_shaitan what does it contradict.

Your other assessments are subjective. But if it is contradictory that is problematic.

 

In canon, Snoke is a being we've never met before who's been hiding out for who knows how long in the Unknown Regions. What contradicts that?

 

That is more that to me makes Snoke=Plagueis make even less sense to me.

 

I can't speculate on his ability or otherwise for a prolonged life until we learn what he is. There are several species in the GFFA that live unnaturally long lives and being that we don't know what he is, maybe he's part of some race from the unknown or wild space that isn't well-known.

I have seen some solidly-presented speculation that he is a Diathim who may have been corrupted by the Dark Side and maybe he's got some broken wings under that robe.

 

That's not how the dark side works! Someone like Snoke would've attempted to take over at some point. Yet we're supposed to believe that he just sat it out in the unknown regions whilst the Jedi were obliterated by the Sith? And where did he get his knowledge from? Again, he's a master of the dark side and one presumes as powerful as a sith - so where did he learn this from and again, why didn't we hear from him or one of his masters/apprentices?

So yes, that's a contradiction - it goes against everything the films tell us about the dark side.

 

You still can't truthfully call it a contradiction unless you know his nature. You certainly can't lean on what the films (or even the canon EU) has taught us about the dark side, when we know that RJ is about to turn the nature of the dark and the light on it's head in this next film.

The only things we know about him tell us that he's played a very long and calculated game. He was extremely patient. He waited while the Empire came to power and all-but destroyed the Jedi and then waited for the Empire to fall. He took over at a time when the Republic was rebuilding and had absolutely zero desire to engage in another civil war. The galaxy was literally his for the taking, minus that thorn in his side named Skywalker.

 

So you're suggesting Snoke observed the Jedi when they were at the height of their power and watched as the Sith (and not him) plotted and took over the galaxy, saw the Jedi taken down and then 30 years after the Sith's demise (and despite the Jedi having a chance to regain power) only then decided to act?

Snoke couldn't have foresaw the Sith's existence, or the Jedi's fall. He would've just observed all this, making no plan of his own. The dark side craves power. Those who walk its path, crave unlimited power and pursue that until it destroys them. Now it could be that Snoke isn't on the same level as the Sith power wise and this is why he didn't act as he knew he'd be wiped out. But then rather than a contradiction we have a weak ass villain who not only poses a lesser threat but remains completely disconnected from the Skywalker story.

If he were Plagueis it would make sense as he would've got his knowledge from the Sith Order and of course would've been actively involved into taking power when part of that order. He then realised that Sidious was the only one to take over and knew his apprentice would kill him. So he learned how to cheat death and when Sidious "killed him", he rose again but was injured. He hides out in the UR waiting for his time to strike and for his body to heal. But then the unexpected happens and Vader is redeemed and destroys the Sith. This weakens the Dark Side (stops his healing) and gives the Jedi a chance to rise. He has to act quickly to stop the Jedi and save himself.

 

You are still assuming that you know his true nature and motivations. It was mentioned somewhere else here that in the Phasma novel, Snoke's formation of the First Order was non-violent and very calculated. It wasn't done on a whim.

It has also been said time and again, that the nature of the Force is being turned on it's head. We are in for some surprises. When we know that throughout the saga, the villains are typically the antithesis of the heroes and we know that we are going to find Luke in a place of understanding that is going to shake up what we know, we can assume that Snoke will also be coming from an angle that is not typical of how we understand the dark side and light side.

In regards to his power, he was able to reach and unsettle Leia from across the reaches of space... from the unknown regions. He could even have an affect on Ben who was in the womb. I'd say that his influence over the Force is very considerable.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 12, 2017 ---

I dig your speculation.

 

That's irrelevant. He built the FO to take over and destroy the Jedi. Why only decide to do this now?

He can't change the nature of the Dark Side else it will become, as Lucas warned, gobbledygook. They could expand the concepts somewhat but the Dark Side is and always will be about greed, selfishness and anger. Star Wars is built on that and if changed, will become a confusing mess. The light side is compassion. The dark side is greed. When you join the Dark Side you want more and more power. If you're a master of it, as Snoke is, then this ambition is absolute. And the ability to acquire that which you demand is, as we saw with the Sith, that much easier. Thus it makes no sense for Snoke not to have made a power grab sooner.

Exactly - he is very powerful. Very knowledgeable in the Dark Side of the Force. Yet he sat back in the UR (maybe) for at least the last 70 years (likely much much more) and did nothing? And we know he isn't all seeing (thus couldn't have just been waiting for the events that took place to transpire) as everything goes t*ts up for him in TFA.

Nah, for me it's Plagueis or disaster for the ST.

 

It's not irrelevant, it is one of the few facts that we have. Perhaps we learn why he waited over the next two movies and supporting novels/comics.

Didn't say he'd change the nature of the dark side, I said that our understanding of the nature of the Force is going to be jostled. You cannot overlook what has been said about TLJ and point at past understanding.

"Breathe. Just breathe. Now reach out. – what do you see?"
"Light, darkness, a balance."
"It is so much bigger"​

Again, perhaps we learn why he waited over the next two movies and supporting novels/comics. Declaring "You are wrong because, Plagueis!" simply due to the void of an answer for a character in a trilogy that we have only seen 1/3 of is a close-minded perspective that's not conductive to good discussion.

That is very narrow-minded and I am sorry that it is that finite for you. It's not our story to write. I mean, you can call it a disaster for you personally, but you only speak for yourself.

 

I'm not saying "you're wrong". I'm probably wrong. But my point is that I am yet to hear a convincing backstory for Snoke that isn't tacked on and contradictory. Plagueis provides a perfect answer. Snoke from the UR is lame.

 

We haven't heard his backstory, we have only gotten bits. There is not a lot there to be convinced by because there are too many questions.

• How old is he?
• Did he begin in the unknown region?
• Was he a Sith at some point?
• Why strike at this point in galactic history?

I have no doubt that there are other good questions that I did not think of there. Either way, it is far too early for you to declare his origin or backstory to be lame.