Snoke , Master of the Dark side from the shadow.

Some Canon sources are known to lie or be wrong. After episode IV Darth Vader killed Luke's father per Obi Wan. Also as far as everyone in Ep. V production knew, except Lucas (and maybe LK), and eventually MH and James Earl Jones (but only right beforehand), that was the truth. The point being that as of now it is believed that Plagueis was killed by Palpatine, but that is subject to change at the writer's discretion. Therefore, Plagueis being dead is not a fact, but a report from one individual, Palpatine. I agree wholeheartedly with Shaitan's analysis that if they continue to build clear parallels between Snoke and Lucerno's Plagueis, then he is Plagueis in all but name. That to me is just bad use of source material when the original character would have played the role just as well, if not better. Now they may veer off in a new and interesting direction. I am not saying they are too similar to have totally locked them into this corner, but currently they feel a bit too similar.

 

The music locked it up for me. John Williams is very intentional in his motifs.

 

The problem with the "Plaugeis in name only" critique is that through out the 40 years of Star Wars there have been numerous Dark Side Masters who were or thought dead who returned in some form or another. With the exception of the weird Egyptian looking villains in some of the comics they all share the same evil space wizard or warlord vibe.

Revan and Malak left thought dead and came back. Malak returned the villain Revan returned for a chose your own adventure story- Knights of the Old Republic.

Exar Kun is going to make the list twice. First he was the fallen Jedi lead astray by the undead dark side Freedon Nadd. Then after ExarvKun himself was long dead he was released to run amuck possessing Luke's students after ROTJ.

Its almost like some of these stories are built on familiar tropes with sci-fi rubbed on them.

 

You can't say Plagueis' death is not a fact simply because it hasn't been rewritten yet. That is absolutely absurd. Especially when there's a wall of tweets from Pablo Hidalgo verifying it.

I suppose that Sheev is also lurking around the corner, just biding his time?

 

Unsure if you're patronising me or not...

So he was a Jedi that fell to that Dark Side:
- What has he been doing for X amount of years?
- How did he learn such great knowledge outside of the Jedi and Sith orders?
- Would it not be a bit too convenient to suddenly have a fallen Jedi appear out of nowhere?

And all are shown to be of no comparison with the Sith and thus would be an inferior enemy.

Sure - perhaps Snoke was an original force wielder, supremely powerful. He was defeated thousands of years ago but rescued by loyal followers who had him frozen in carbonite or something. He gets buried on Jakku within their old spaceship or base and is eventually discovered by Palpatine. That's a story. It explains why he was idle for centuries. It explains his power and wisdom. It explains why he has emerged only now. Heck, it's even a link to Palpatine and thus the greater Star Wars story.

But I go back to my original point about Plagueis - these kind of ideas are tacked on and don't connect with the Skywalker saga....or at least don't connect to it on the same level as Plagueis would. But alas, I concede there would be no "contradiction" of the films here.

See above.

True. Snoke could've even been a good guy for some time and then became corrupted by holocrons discovered after Palpatine's fall.

Villain's are not usually described in such terms.

I suspect it's Dark Side temptation music. Again, I fully admit Plagueis is doubtful. I just think it would be the best option for Snoke and having Snoke share so many similarities is class A trolling from LucasFilm!

Maybe my words were a bit harsh and I misread your point. I was talking more about the similarities between Snoke and Plagueis rather than what is and what is not canon.


Let's leave Plagueis be in this thread now - there is a perfectly good one for him in the general ST forum. I think the points being made here are becoming somewhat skewed. To recap:

1. I doubt Snoke is Plagueis.
2. I think Snoke should be Plagueis.
3. If Snoke is just an ancient Dark Sider from the Unknown Regions then that would be contradictory in regards to how the Dark Side works (unless Snoke has been "frozen" for the period in which he has been idle and a good reason is given for his re-emergence).
4. Snoke shares numerous similarities with Plagueis - more so if Plagueis did survive (which is a strong potential story considering his abilities). Heck, it's even alluded to in the DP novel and Maul survives being chopped in half...

The truth however is that it is more likely that Snoke is a brand new character who has prospered behind the scenes but at the same time been unable to "join the galactic fight" because of his vulnerability. Perhaps Luke discovered Snoke's existence and his meddling in galactic affairs (whereby he was keeping the Dark Side presence strong and attempting to unbalance the Force) and thus then had to emerge to defeat the Jedi? That would work. I just think Plagueis is a missed opportunity and new Snoke could've been a better fit for a new saga once the Skywalker tale was done...

 

This one is easy. I'm not patronizing. Seriously by bouncing back a subject I considered obvious it seems shrouded in mystery. For the purposes of advancing your point a great strategy.

Now once I stated the possibilities I doubt you lacked the imagination to think of them.

Well what he has been doing and why he has waited is a different subject entirely. As I had only listed possibilities to explain how he might have the knowledge.

The answers to why now and where exist if he is new, a Palpatine contingency, a failed secret apprentice, or if he is DP.

Mother Talzin gave several Jedi runs for their money in CW.

Also the Sith won after a 1k year waiting game and intense subterfuge NOT through toe to toe engagement. I don't think its unreasonably to think that another power might rise to be a problem.

That has been your consistent position. But the greater connection is Ben to Luke and Anakin. Simply by trying to screw with Ben Snoke has a connection to the Skywalkers. More importantly the story centers around Ben and Rey direct rivals to take up either the legacy of Vader or Anakin.

Kumbya

Trolling assumes motive. I think that they are building the best story they can and we sadly weren't consulted.

 

I'll take disaster every time.

Re: labeling Snoke a rip-off of Plagueis. As others have stated this take is informed largely by non-canon material. One might as well call Rey a Jaina ripoff and Kylo a Jason ripoff and dismiss the entire ST as derivative garbage (which is a totally valid argument if you are an EU loyalist).

A safer assumption, based on RJ's comments that we'll learn only enough about Snoke in TLJ as we need to know to propel the narrative, is that Snoke's backstory is still unwritten:

- If JJ decides to stage a reveal of Snoke as Plagueis, as a way of neatly tying the ST to the PT, as many have argued over the years (myself included, somewhere deep in that everlasting Plagueis thread), it will be quite easy for him to arrange the pieces in this way without forcibly retconning anything (all it takes is an ObiWanish "from a certain point of view" to reposition Plagueis' death as a "death").

- Similarly, if JJ decides to stage a reveal of Snoke as an ancient dark side user from an uncharted part of the galaxy, who was perhaps "summoned" by the dark side reverberations of Sidious' death, who then encountered the remnants of the empire and crafted them into the FO, it will also be quite easy for JJ to arrange the pieces in this way as well.

- JJ could also just as easily craft any number of backstories for Snoke, some of which were nicely outlined by @Pastor Barndog in his earlier post

In other words, let's enjoy inhabiting this moment of uncertainty, which contains ALL POSSIBILITIES, and enjoy the story as it unfolds. To quote Yoda: "Patience you must have."

 

I thought everyone calls him Supreme Leader.

Now they reffer on him Lord, like Lord Vader.?

 

What about the latest rumor that Snoke "Absorbs" Leia's powers in Episode 8?
Is this serious?

 

Well Lord is a name given to a person in power. I think it is the darkside equivalent to a Jedi Master.

 

it's certainly the Sith equivalent, but he can't exactly be Darth Snoke

i wonder if there's another identity to be revealed...

 

Bombad Big Boss

 

Another damn Plagueis thread?!

 

To those who are apart of the Plaguean Inquisition all threads are Plagueis threads. He's the "force" that binds everything together.

 

Found this vid. Its a little old news but intriguing.

 

Thoughts on this:

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/09/18/the-last-jedi-snoke-andy-serkis-facial-hair/

 

3. I know in most instances the typical darkside master wants galaxy domination however, but in the past (since Bane) they have bided their time until it was optimal. While Snoke does seem to have agenda, maybe he was waiting til the time is right. Now he is gonna put his plan into action... I dunno, could be a possibly

4. I can agree. I still haven't decided my feelings on Maul though. While I like what they have done with him in Rebels, I can't say I was all thrilled when they brought him back in the Clone Wars as a spider. I loved him in TPM and think he had great possibilities as a villain that was taken out to soon. Sometimes its best to leave them where they are. I think Maul was like Boba Fett, more popular than expected so they decided to bring them back, even if it is in cartoon or EU novels. Maybe one day DP will get a similar treatment.

I think that sounds possibility. Will be interesting to see how they play Snoke and see what they come up with. Will definitely need a little exposition of where he may have been.