1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPOILER The Ending: Beautiful, but problematic

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by NinjaRen, Jan 5, 2020.

Tags:
?

Did you like the ending on Tatooine

  1. Yes

    53 vote(s)
    69.7%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    17.1%
  3. I would have preferred... (please post down below)

    10 vote(s)
    13.2%
  1. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,135
    Likes Received:
    95,482
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    47,182
    Ratings:
    +102,840 / 154 / -29
    EL9VzrpXUAAXOUQ.jpg

    We all like the concept of the binary sunset, and it was probably one of the most predictable endings for the Skywalker Saga.

    Yes, watching the twin suns set in TROS was visually beautiful and also meaningful. At least because of out-of-universe reasons. But if you look at it with the mind of the sequel trilogy characters you can see some issues with that very ending.


    So, Rey goes to the Lars‘ homestead to bury Luke’s and Leia’s lightsabers there. A place that holds only bitter memories for Luke. Remember- he wanted to leave this planet and became an adventurer. And for Leia? Well, for Leia this place is pretty much meaningless. The only memory she probably has of Tatooine is the imprisonment by Jabba the Hutt.

    de9a421a-2fde-4631-9193-3c8549afbd85.jpg

    Rey then claims the name 'Rey Skywalker‘ to honor her mentors and to erase Palpatine’s legacy once and for all.

    2019.12.17-03.59-boundingintocomics-5df852a92321f.jpg

    Yes, this moment makes sense from the audience’s perspective, but form a narrative point of view it doesn’t. Especially not for the character of Rey.

    I don’t really understand why Rey actually wants to inherit the name Skywalker after knowing that this family only brought pain to the galaxy. Think about it: Anakin Skywalker aka Darth Vader ran the Empire, Luke Skywalker failed and created Kylo Ren who then ran the FO. The only good and pure Skywalker was Leia. She fought against the Empire her entire life, but she wasn't called Skywalker.

    Leia is a much better and longer mentor figure for Rey than Luke ever was. So, it would have made much more sense to call yourself 'Rey Organa'.

    But IMO the most powerful statement would have been 'Rey Palpatine'. With calling herself Rey Palpatine she makes the final blow against the Emperor. Now his legacy is replaced with a good and pure person. Rey Palpatine is re-establishing peace by bringing back the Jedi (which Palpatine hated so much).

    beCA8hd-.png

    But JJ chooses Skywalker and is ignoring is own set-up of "accepting of who you are“. It’s only Skywalker because of how the audience feels about the name.


    This whole Skywalker ending would have much more sense if it had been Ben who travels to Tatooine. This would have been a better ending anyways.

    Speaking of alternate endings- the YouTuber Nyah86Production made a pretty cool ending for TROS:


    But I personally would have preferred an ending where Ben Solo surives and together with Rey he travels to Naboo. A place which is much more meaningful in the context of the overall story. How awesome would it be to see Ben and Rey watching the sun set where once Anakin and Padme married?

    ea41cdd0f0fb8fad17c85637df1bca61.jpg

    *This is no hate, just my opinion*
     
    #1 NinjaRen, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    • Great Post Great Post x 8
    • Like Like x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  2. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Posts:
    1,602
    Likes Received:
    65,132
    Trophy Points:
    169,727
    Credits:
    34,995
    Ratings:
    +67,974 / 15 / -2
    Especially after JJ mentioning countless times that binary sunset is his most favourite scene.

    First of we already had the binary sunset as ending in the prior movie (RotS and TLJ). Luke's journey began and then ended with the sun(s) in TLJ, so we already got a beautiful conclusion. So, it's kinda redundant to do it again in TROS. Especially for Rey who never watched the two suns rise and set.

    Secondly, the binary sunset isn't really known as an ending, but a beginning. Like the suns are a symbol of hope for a brighter future. Luke watched the suns set and hoped to get off this planet one day. In ROTS- Owen, Beru and even Obi-Wan watched the suns set and hoped that the war will be over one day. So, using this theme to end the Skywalker saga is kinda ...weird.

    That I would have liked too!
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
  3. srg

    srg Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2016
    Posts:
    1,422
    Likes Received:
    7,804
    Trophy Points:
    15,917
    Credits:
    5,602
    Ratings:
    +9,056 / 28 / -7
    The ending of TRoS is a bit like a mirror of an idea that I had, which involved Ben. I though it would be cool if it ended with him going to Ahch-To and looking into the sunset on the rock where Luke died. It would be open to interpretation whether he went there to live as a hermit and wasn't seen anywhere in the galaxy ever since, or stayed there temporarily as a form of penance.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  4. Philo

    Philo Clone

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Posts:
    11
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    12
    Credits:
    60
    Ratings:
    +47 / 0 / -0
    The idea of Ben going to Ahch-To was an idea going in my mind before TROS was released. I was even thinking of Ben impregnating Rey (be it 'fysically', be it 'Force Impregnation'). 'The Rise of Skywalker' could then be referring to their offspring. But as usual: 1000s of different ideas, only one is chosen. The reason I voted 'yes': The makers take the decision, regardless of expectations. I think it's out of place to call a video "The ending we all deserved." Why do fans 'deserve' something. Because we spend money on Star Wars stuff? We spend more money on food and housing (I hope). The people of Lucasfilm spend time and money on making all these stuff (even though I know there's a lot to gain for them too). They can't make decisions that satisfy everyone.
    Indeed the choice for the Lars Homestead is symbolic. But to understand the narrative: Rey did feel a connection with the Skywalker family. Despite all of their flaws (Luke becoming bitter, Anakin becoming Vader, Ben becoming Ren, Leia quitting her training after the vision only to pick up with the Force decades later), Rey found a new home with the heroes, not with her evil grandfather who she hadn't even met before as far as we know, so why call yourself a Palpatine with proud?
    I'm glad they didn't do the Naboo ending, it would be too cheesy for me (I could accept it in time I guess). With Ben's sacrifice his redemption was sealed. It was obvious no selfish feelings were present. Giving your life to save someone else is the biggest act of love one can do.
    And besides: No one's ever really gone.

    P.S.: IF i would change one thing: I would place Ben as well as Anakin as force ghosts next to Luke and Leia.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Cool Cool x 1
  5. Quiller

    Quiller Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2018
    Posts:
    68
    Likes Received:
    229
    Trophy Points:
    687
    Credits:
    369
    Ratings:
    +300 / 1 / -0
    I like to think Rey and BB8 (whose head is slightly tilted to the side) are looking past the Twin Suns. To the future and where that might lead.

    I love Head Canon! I love the ending too!
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Cool Cool x 1
  6. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,135
    Likes Received:
    95,482
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    47,182
    Ratings:
    +102,840 / 154 / -29
    I would have liked this one too, because it also makes more sense in the context of the story. The Tatooine ending is just fan service.

    Yes, it would have been really cheesy. But I kinda think JJ should have gone full Reylo. The Reylo we got is half-assed.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  7. Messi

    Messi Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Posts:
    2,661
    Likes Received:
    6,607
    Trophy Points:
    14,167
    Credits:
    9,797
    Ratings:
    +8,542 / 183 / -27
    I loved this ending on Tatooine with the binary suns.
    But I agree with @srg Ach to could've be a great idea too.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  8. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Posts:
    218
    Likes Received:
    434
    Trophy Points:
    2,792
    Credits:
    875
    Ratings:
    +635 / 19 / -3
    I think a lot of analysis has missed that Rey basically got an essence transfusion from the last Skywalker, and that is why she is alive. Skywalker flows through her now.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 3
    • Cool Cool x 2
  9. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Posts:
    2,189
    Likes Received:
    3,355
    Trophy Points:
    11,467
    Credits:
    4,339
    Ratings:
    +5,145 / 103 / -18
    Well that is an interesting thought. Of course that would make Rey and Ben relatives in a sense so... not sure if that's work all the way through.

    But then again Luke kissed Leia so...
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  10. Darth Jocam

    Darth Jocam Clone

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2020
    Posts:
    1
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Credits:
    19
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    I have enjoyed every Star Wars movie ever made, of course some more than others. The previews for Rise of Skywalker had me very excited to see the conclusion. However, the preview showing Chewbacca and Lando in the Millennium Falcon, which doesn't happen till the end of the movie, should have been left out considering viewers were to believe Chewie dies halfway through the movie. A movie of this magnitude you would think someone would have caught that. But, on the ending it atleast explained why the movie was called the Rise of Skywalker, and I know a lot of people don't agree with me, but leaving the theater after Force Awakens, I was more entertained than leaving after TLJ and TROS
     
    • Like Like x 6
  11. Solo

    Solo Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Posts:
    643
    Likes Received:
    1,444
    Trophy Points:
    6,517
    Credits:
    1,977
    Ratings:
    +2,732 / 48 / -19
    My perfect ending for the saga is the Broom Boy epilogue.

    I'm content to pretend TROS doesn't exist.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Trolling x 2
    • Like x 1
    • Funny x 1
    • Friendly x 1
    • Unoriginal x 1
    • Dislike x 1
  12. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2019
    Posts:
    372
    Likes Received:
    6,656
    Trophy Points:
    15,142
    Credits:
    3,297
    Ratings:
    +7,257 / 1 / -0
    Welcome to the Cantina :)

    I agree you with you the ending was expressly showing us/summing up the title of the movie. The whole movie is The Rise of Skywalker, but the last scene sums that up.

    On your point about Chewie, I had watched the trailers but genuinely didn’t even think about them spoiling the shock moments of thinking Chewie was gone... for one thing I was too engrossed to be thinking about the trailers, but if I had I might have questioned it more, but it still wouldn’t have necessarily ‘proved’ anything - remember Jyn and the TIE in the Rogue One trailer!? And actually, the trailers make it look like Chewie is in Babu Frik’s place, which doesn’t happen.

    But more than that, the shock is a short, one-time deal that IMHO doesn’t really matter for the story - what matters is that Rey believes she has killed Chewie, that she is struggling to understand herself and that plays into her self-doubt and a pull towards / fight against the darkness that is important throughout the movie. And that is part of why I think it's so great she chooses Rey Skywalker as a name, rather than ending up as Empress Palpatine... her chosen name is, itself, a symbol of the light side triumphing. The film starts with a drop/tilt down from distant stars into darkness before we see a healing Mustafar, the place the newly-fallen Darth Vader (formerly A. Skywalker) was so damaged and broken, and the film ends with us looking into bright suns with the newly-named Rey Skywalker.

    Personally, I love it. :)
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Wise Wise x 1
  13. iostream

    iostream Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2019
    Posts:
    97
    Likes Received:
    241
    Trophy Points:
    597
    Credits:
    313
    Ratings:
    +354 / 2 / -6
    Could well be my favorite scene in the saga. I'm waiting a little longer before committing to that. So good.

    I don't see any issues.

    Well, we only see a very brief slice of Luke's life on Tatooine (like fifteen minutes out of around twenty years) so to say "it holds only bitter memories" isn't a conclusion with much support at all. But the real point isn't about Luke's memories of Tatooine, it's about the roots of a home in relation to Rey. She's basically claiming her heritage in the scene, which is a very apt conclusion to a trilogy about finding and claiming heritage.

    While her claim does honor her mentors, and it does erase Palpatine's legacy - that's not really why she's doiong it. She claims the family name Skywalker because spirit is stronger than blood, as Luke stated. Though she is a Palpatine by blood, she is a Skywalker in spirit - and claims the spiritual heritage as that which belongs to her identity.

    I'd propose that's the opposite of true. From a narrative perspective it makes perfect sense. The idea that blood isn't as strong as spirit is part of the narrative motion leading to that final scene.

    Wait, so Luke risking his life to rescue Leia, protecting his friends and the Rebellion, blowing up the Death Star built to instill galactic fear, fighting the guy who "ran the Empire" and deciding to try to save him, rescuing Han from Jabba, thwarting the Emporer by refusing to join him? Where do these thing fit into your statement of "only brought pain"? How are you pointing at one moment in a person's life and declaring that person's entire life as bringing "only pain"? If you were facing down judgment day, and got "You hurt a person that one time, therefore you have only brought pain to the world" would you have any problems with that judgment against you?

    You mention Rey being good and pure - are you realizing that Rey is the embodiment of what the Skywalkers have done for the galaxy. She is the Skywalker legacy. And since by your own admission she's pure and good, then...

    Because she was adopted into the Organa family and if they would've been calling her by her real name "Leia Skywalker" then she may have suspected something was amiss.

    Except that it makes no sense for Rey to claim the identity of the Organa family. Leia only had the name because she was adopted in order to hide her.

    Except that would actually be the opposite of the theme of spirit being stronger than blood in matters of identity, and would be the heritage claim that didn't make sense relative to the narrative.

    Except the point of the heritage claim isn't to "strike final blows" it's to resolve the question of her identity. Which is why she makes the claim of heritage when asked the question, "Who are you?"

    No, it's Skywalker because the narrative theme is that spirit is more important to identity than blood. She is precisely accepting who she is. She's Rey Skywalker. Her spiritual family is the family from which her true identity is derived. You sure you're understanding the narrative? I find that most criticism comes from not understanding narratives and the movement of the story toward a resolution.

    No, because Ben's Skywalker identity is based on blood. It would make no narrative sense to have Ben claiming his heritage as a Skywalker when spiritual lineage is the point of the narrative.

    Awesome, but less awesome? Significantly less. The narrative needs Ben to transcend along with the Skywalker bloodline before him because of the transcendent nature of the Skywalker legacy. The name Skywalker is transcending the material into the spiritual, just as the Skywalkers themselves - family and name - transcended the material into the spiritual. Ben is the final movement of the motion of the Skywalkers in attaining that transcendence.

    If Ben is still in the material world at the end of the story, then the idea has no catharsis. The Skywalker name is not fully transcended. The narrative motion misses the mark and for what? A scene for people who miss the point of the story to think is awesome for some personal reason unrelated to the narrative goal?

    Whenever you see someone saying, "I wish it was this instead" it's really "I wish the story had no narrative cohesion and went off into unrelated narrative left field. That's what I would've done." Without realizing that what they would've done is wrecked the narrative into a brick wall.

    Oh yeah, that's true! I hadn't even connected that. Great insight.
     
    #13 iostream, Jan 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Cool Cool x 1
  14. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2019
    Posts:
    160
    Likes Received:
    745
    Trophy Points:
    4,982
    Credits:
    845
    Ratings:
    +897 / 1 / -0
    I don't agree that Rey identifying as Skywalker and not Palpatine goes against any theme in the ST.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  15. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,135
    Likes Received:
    95,482
    Trophy Points:
    170,017
    Credits:
    47,182
    Ratings:
    +102,840 / 154 / -29
    Unfortunately the last Skywalker wasn't there in the last shot. Another miss. Okay, maybe if Ben Solo was there too, it would have been difficult to choose a name. "Skywalker" or "Solo".

    I'm not a big fan of that ending. Especially not in context of TLJ, but it would have worked as an ending for the saga.

    And that's fine! I just think it was weak and not even close to the original binary sunset.

    If you just watch the movies, then it is. Even Anakin hated Tatooine.

    I meant with that- she was born by darkness, but chooses the light. This is why she is good and pure, at least mythologically spoken.


    Regarding your other points- I have nothing to add to them. It's great you can get these things out them. For me it didn't work. Star Wars was never really ambigious. It was always simple and on the point. Even though I like movies which give us a lot of to think and interpret about, personally I would have preferred a much more "on-point-ending though.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,165
    Likes Received:
    29,298
    Trophy Points:
    155,167
    Credits:
    21,908
    Ratings:
    +37,040 / 146 / -95
    Rey Skywalker works fine, chosen family is a huge part of Star Wars. We didn't need the Palpatine silliness to get there either, which IMO, lessens the impact of her choosing a different "legacy" Star Wars name.

    Tattooine makes no sense from a story perspective. None. Not even thematically. It has no significance to Rey. Luke and Anakin hated the place. Leia's only time there was as a sex slave.

    Ach-To makes more sense. It's where Luke returned. Should have been where the confrontation between Rey and Ren happened. Then it can emotionally tie into the story.

    Tattooine was chosen simply because of what it means to us the fans. Which is fine, I guess. It just leaves me with the "aw Tattooine" feeling right after then nothing. There's no weight to it besides what I brought into it.
     
    #16 RoyleRancor, Jan 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
    • Like Like x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  17. oldbert

    oldbert Jedi General

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Posts:
    874
    Likes Received:
    23,792
    Trophy Points:
    149,567
    Credits:
    14,616
    Ratings:
    +25,526 / 8 / -1
    I think JJ tried to prolong and complete the total victory of the Jedi over the Sith with that scene. Sheevs granddaughter who should have taken the Sith throne not only finds a way to overcome all his manipulations and just survived by the help of Ben Solo. She also visits the roots of the Skywalkers (Shmi's place) and connects herself completely to the Skywalker legacy. You could see that as a bonus feature to the whole Redemption of the Skywalker name.
    BUT.. oth I would have preferred Ben Solo visiting Ach-Too together with Rey and seeing him making his peace with Luke at the very end (remember: Luke said "see you around kid" in VIII).
    Maybe they didn't know what to do with an on living Ben..
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    687
    Likes Received:
    1,086
    Trophy Points:
    4,742
    Credits:
    1,207
    Ratings:
    +1,761 / 71 / -29
    Luke only wanted to get off Tatooine because of Biggs and the Rebellion.

    If Biggs doesn't leave specifically to defect and join the war, Luke has no reason or motivation to "look to the horizon".I

    The thing that is "problematic" with the scene is that the Lars Homestead should've been a burnt-out shell based on what happened in ANH.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Unoriginal Unoriginal x 1
  19. DarthWarEagle

    DarthWarEagle Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2015
    Posts:
    207
    Likes Received:
    348
    Trophy Points:
    1,957
    Credits:
    955
    Ratings:
    +601 / 22 / -13
    How many people do you know running around with the last name Hitler? Palpatine is dead (ok...maybe...I think hes dead...he should be dead) and wouldn't know what last name she is using now.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. Unseen

    Unseen Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Posts:
    471
    Likes Received:
    572
    Trophy Points:
    6,717
    Credits:
    1,179
    Ratings:
    +1,042 / 300 / -249
    *sigh*

    Can we please call a spade a spade?

    ROS was cringe worthy bad. 90-95% of it was terrible. But to focus just on the ending-

    She may as well have said "Rey Star Wars" because it makes as much sense and is as much fan service. Or "Rey Lucas" or "Carrie Fisher" or something else that would have made easily pleased Star Wars fans hearts flutter.

    BB8 has no attachment to Tattoine. Neither does Rey.

    It would have made a lot more sense for Ben to survive and hide out on Tattoine in exile, but then again a lot of things would have made more sense had Disney even pretended to care about an actual story.


    I'd like to rewind though and ask how in the world does it make sense that the "end of the Skywalker saga" featured a duel between...checks notes...two Palpatines??


    Guys- its okay to be honest about this movie. No only did it not "fit" with the saga, it didn't even fit within its own trilogy. It seems to me JJ and Rian do not like each other, because neither even attempted to make a sequel to the others movie.

    This film was terrible. Someone in my theater literally laughed when Rey came back to life and kissed Ben.

    The ending made as much sense as the entire film. It was fitting in that it was poorly thought out garbage.
     
    • Trolling x 3
    • Disagree x 2
    • Great Post x 1
    • Wise x 1
    • Funny x 1
    • Cool x 1
    • Cocky x 1
Loading...

Share This Page