The Last Jedi = The end of the Jedi Order

so... both those things?

so what Rey does in TFA... she could have only got from Jedi training? either she did get training previously, or between her and the force she learnt skills we've only seen from Jedi/Sith before. which is it though? as it affects this topic if she doesn't need a Jedi master to learn certain skills.

 

Well, yeah. The knowledge is implied. I should've been explicit, perhaps...

Some things force sensitives can do naturally. In TFA Rey also learns what she can do from Kylo Ren. And by accepting the Force and letting it in, it aids her in her battle against Ren. But I'm sure you agree that she is no Jedi yet, right? Not only is there much more to learn about the nature of the Force and what skills she can acquire BUT she must learn the important lessons of non-attachment, selflessness and not giving in to ones Dark Side.

 

cool, so she's gonna need to learn these things from dad then?

 

I don't know where you get your delusions laser brain!

 

in all seriousness, and to get on topic.. at some point thousands of years ago there was no Jedi Order. They worked it out once.. so between force sensitives and the force surely they can do it again?

i just don't understand the worry about 'The Last Jedi'. If we've learned anything from Anakin's birth, and the force calling Rey into action.. is that when balance is skewed, the force will step in.

i actually think that 'The Last Jedi' might have a double meaning.. Luke is the Last Jedi, and Snoke is the last Fallen Jedi.

lol.. if i can't talk you round, then i will have to try and trick you into believing #ReySkywalker

 

I feel like Luke never really got to start his Jedi Order in the first place. We assume he had started it because of that scene with the KOR standing amongst dead bodies. However, we don't know if thats happened in the past or future, and we don't know if it is the Jedi Academy. Han does say, "He was training a new generation of Jedi, one boy turned against him and destroyed it all." However, we don't know at what stage Luke was at in the process.

In Bloodlines we learn Luke is traveling with Ben to learn more about the Jedi. I personally think Luke traveling with Ben (his first and only student, who he took before he thought he was actually ready to teach as a favor to leah?) to learn more about the Jedi so that he could start accepting students.

 

I don't WANT them to, but it does seem to me that LFL/Disney will be changing the star wars product significantly. I think we will see the end of the Jedi as we might view them. I believe that at the end of ep 9 Rey will, for all intents and purposes, BE a Jedi, but she will not label herself as much. I think disney will try and make her "more" than "just" a Jedi. They will send her out wandering like some ronin looking for new force traditions and methods to master. They really do want her to be this uber powerful character far above the rest of the star wars universe IMHO.

I can totally see her just wandering the galaxy learning stuff, never officially starting a Jedi order, but training a very small handfull of follower, literally like 5 or 6 apprentices, who wander the galaxy not really getting involved. I think this will be done in a heavy handed and wrong minded attempt to make the force "mystical" again. I think the Jedi as we understand them are done, and the Sith are done period. At least for a few movies until they bring them back as a cash cow haha. I really am starting to have a bad feeling about this new EU. It seems like it was made by people who didn't like ROTJ and the PT. They have a very dogmatic idea of what the force is and they are shoveling it down our throat at the expense of the broader narritive. Substituting the Sith for an extra-galacitic alien race, or whatever Snoke will turn out to be, 2/3rds of the way through a 9 part saga, is just ridiculous and shows how out of touch the Disney / new LFL team is with what made star wars great.

 

No chance, the word or concept Jedi is as famous as Star Wars itself.

I'm pretty sure at one point in th UK, maybe still Jedi was an official religion as enough people were polled and wrote it down as there religion haha.

Being a Jedi, if there was Jedi, is about the single coolest thing ever. It's going no where.

 

I believe Anakin to be the last "true" Jedi, training the ways through the Order and taking direction/being on the Council

Now that doesn't mean Luke isn't a Jedi (he is one, like his father before him after all) but maybe it points that Anakin may have an important back role to play? Even in a few minutes of screentime - force ghost etc.

Who knows? It's fun to speculate. I'm babbling.

 

Don't be too proud of this hypothetical situation you have constructed. An out of context line in a teaser is insignificant next to what is revealed in the actual film.

 

Is Luke's sentence even complete in the teaser? The Jedi must end...what? The way he was taught as a Jedi? The last 100 years of the Jedi? Begin how it was truly meant to be? There are so many things he could even mean without the whole context.

 

First thing it came to my mind when watching the trailer was our own reality: Religion is something that can work really well in a personal, spiritual way, but when we talk of organized religions, we talk about groups of people that fight to each other over and over, endlessly.

Luke tried to make a new jedi order and he failed, having one of his pupils and member of his own family going to the dark side and destroying it all.

I read Luke's words in that way, BUT:

This can be just the beginning of the film, as Miyagi didn't want to teach Daniel San at first; or it can be a whole point of this trilogy, and Rey will bring balance and just be the last Jedi of the history.

I would love this to be the end of Star Wars. A rounded story from I to IX.

 

I like the Jedi in the original trilogy, I really dislike the Jedi from the prequel trilogy. Time to die Jedi Order.

 

2/3 of OT Jedi are also PT Jedi.

All of the OT Jedi wanted the Jedi to Return. Ending the Jedi because they are corrupt or flawed or secretly evil carries Yoda and Obi-Wan down with them. It means that Luke's rejection of the Emperor and declaration as Jedi is tainted.

 

It's about the depiction of the Jedi, not the actual characters

 

I think this trilogy is gonna end this story.

 

Then isn't that a matter of how you show the jedi on screen. Luke became a Jedi in the moment of praxis and victory of the entire OT. He became a Jedi. If he is backing away from that it effects the OT.

 

"First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray
Through refined Jedi sight."
―Journal of the Whills, 7:477

so through refined Jedi sight means that a Jedi is necessary to resolve the grey.

I don't think Luke is not a Jedi. I think he is the last Jedi, the one with refined jedi sight. but that doesn't mean that the Jedi will be necessary afterwards, if the force is balanced out.

I think its TFA art book that says 'the brighter the light the stronger its shadow' or something like that. and I think that's in reference to Kylo Ren more than anything, he had the most potential and that made the potential darkness in him strong also.

But if they're going with that idea then it seems like in order for there to be lasting balance the Jedi would have to be gone.
I think their is some confusion around the term 'grey', I'm honestly confused because does it mean you occupy both light and dark side tendencies (like Snoke thinks of Kylo) or does it mean you simply do the forces will (chirrut imwe)
its hard to tell at this point. but something is going on in this department, its not just a single line in the trailer to build hype. the book they show when Rey says
'A balance' seems like it will be about balance.

also the PT Jedi were looking for the chosen one even before they knew the Sith were back...so the chosen one who was supposed to bring balance to the force wasn't meant to be a Jedi super solider who was going to wipe out the Sith. they were simply meant to bring balance.
Perhaps Vader killing all the Jedi and then the Sith was the balance. that was the OT's original end if I remember it- Luke redeemed his father but didn't become a jedi, and then he rode off into the sunset as the last force user ala clint eastwood.

Seems like they might be back tracking on the ROTJ conclusion. the original version of that also had Han on the cards to die. so it seems they're leaning heavily on the original end of ROTJ, where luke is like a lone gunslinger/ronin.

but it might legitimatly work as a scheme on Lukes part. if he turned up to Kylo Ren and was like 'I was wrong, there's no good or evil, its fine to be conflicted, we want to bring balance to the galaxy just like Vader did...' perhaps that speech would work.

and then all the force users would no be in conflict- hence balance,

 

That's my fear. Backtracking the ROTJ conclusion.

It is possible Snoke has already told us the outline:

There has been an awakening (you know in the Force).

If Skywalker (The Last Jedi) returns

Then new Jedi will rise (Ep IX: Rise of the Light?)