THE REALITY OF MEETING YOUR HEROES- LUKE SKYWALKER AND THE GENIUS OF THE LAST JEDI

So there were some left in the fan-base hoping that TFA was just a holding pattern to introduce new characters before disregarding them to go into cozy nostalgia land. Delayed denial hate spillage . . . fascinating.

 

What do you mean by ‘evolve’? I certainly expect to be carried along by the story as the saga unfolds, the story is the evolution, not the style. The only new things I want from Star Wars are good stories. TFA and TLJ take place over the space of about a week and I’m supposed to buy into there being significant character evolution over a week? The PT takes place over 15 years or so, there is another gap of 15 years until the PT which takes place over a number of years, then we wait 30 years for the next epic part of the saga to come along and its first two acts take place over a week! The idea that the problem is not getting to see 60 and 70 yr olds acting like 25 yr olds is a straw man, I’d be happy to see them ushering in well developed characters but come on! Finn is a nice guy from the word go, no real conflict, he deserts because he’s a nice person. How much more interesting it would be if him leaving the first order took a whole movie to develop. What has Rey learned in these two films? Nothing, she is just exactly the same person whatever happens to her.

 

I mean anyone can try this thought experiment for themselves.
VII young hero discovers the force, seeks a place in a world in which a fundamental war for freedom in the galaxy looms
VIII young hero reunites old hero with the cause, meanwhile miscelanious stuff in the conflict happens
IX young hero redeems big bad's student and successor, old hero sacrifices himself to rid the galaxy of the big bad

Even typing this made me snooze...

 

The hubris is strong with you.

 

Rey has learned a lot. She's learned not to look back. She's had to deal with the reality of her parents. She's found her place in this story and carries the future of the Jedi Order.

 

I suggest that the people who think Rey didn't learn a damn thing to first revisit the cave/mirror scene in TLJ, and then read this:
https://thoughtexperiments.net/people-who-divide-like-an-amoeba/

The way RJ introduces a philosophical examining of 'identity' in a SW film was just brilliant.

 

Han, Luke and Leia can no longer take the centre stage as the main characters of SW.
And do you know why?
Because they are old!

A new generation has to carry on the torch, and it doesn't matter if they are liked or not, they are crucial for the continued existence of Star Wars.

Star Wars is targeting the fans of the future (12 year olds and teens).
And do they want to see a bunch of old people taking the centre stage?
No they want to see young and attractive people in the limelight.

 

And recall one of the themes in TFA - 'masks'.

 

I see why so many people love this movie if they think that our shared disillusionment with Rey is somehow ingenious. How many times in movies have characters been disillusioned by their heroes.... lots! The old saying of don't meet your heroes has played out many times in movies. The point of relating to a character disillusioned by their hero is to build the character up before we see them. I accept that in this case it's slightly different because this is a well established and beloved character. Also the building up of the character isn't happening in one movie but rather over the course of a previous trilogy. Where this doesn't work in the way you have described is that we aren't relating to Luke in the same way Rey is. Rey knew very little about Luke prior to meeting him. He is literally a myth to her. The audience on the other hand already knows him on a more personable level. Therefore the idea that we share her disillusionment is false. For Rey it's more bafflement (her face shows this) than disillusionment. She thought she was going to get training and guidance from a supposed master and what she gets is a grumpy old man that doesn't want her around. It's not as if she knew him years ago and has found someone she barely recognizes like it is for us. For Rey who Luke was and is, is irrelevant, she just wants answers to what is happening to her. Rather than getting dispirited by Luke she finds answers on her own. Later she angrily demands why Luke attempted to kill Kylo Ren but that's a seperate issue. Rey actually gets very little from Luke and it is Luke in the end that gains more from meeting her. I think the fact she steals the Jedi books shows how little she gets from Luke in terms of guidance.

For fans that see Luke in a certain light it was far more agonising to see Luke like this than it was for Rey. For me It really isn't clever because it doesn't achieve what it sets out to. If anything I feel more detached from the character of Rey than I did in Force Awakens. She was largely rather indifferent to how she felt about Luke in TLJ. The only time she seemed to show emotion with Luke is when she thought he tried to kill Kylo Ren. She seemed to care more about Ben Solo than Luke in TLJ.

I can't see the comparison between mad Yoda and mad Luke bacause as someone who grew up with the original trilogy I was introduced to Yoda with no prior knowledge of what he was like in his prime. This cannot be compared with Luke who we knew over three movies before seeing him in TLJ. Mad, cranky and odd Yoda is what I knew Yoda to be for many years prior to watching the prequels. Seeing Luke reduced to this evoked a very different feeling to how I perceived Yoda for the time. It's not about a character on paper, it's how a character makes you feel in the movie. Yoda in TESB is genuinely funny, interesting, cute and loveable. Luke in TLJ for most of the movie isn't funny, quite boring and certainly isn't cute. Yoda was a joy to watch and Luke is largely a drag.

 

@Ammianus Marcellinus

Great analysis!

 

I'll try, even though English isn't my mother tongue so bear with me.

The cave scene drove one of the main themes,( identity, who am I , what is my place in this) home in a visually very strong image; an endless repetition or mirror image of the very character struggling to find her identity.

It reminded me of the classic ‘Mars’ paradox as written by Derek Parfit that boils down to you having been beamed to Mars (Star Trek style): your body on earth is broken down to last atom and recreated on Mars. What if your body on earth wasn’t ‘broken down’ but simply copied and recreated (ie. continued to exist) and someone told you ‘you’ had to be destroyed because there can only be one ‘you’. Naturally you would protest. You would still have a sense of identity even though a perfect copy of you existed on another planet with the exact same memories, beliefs and so on.

(Parfit used this story to challenge common beliefs that who we are is determined by our memories, our minds or our brains. Our bodies also play a more significant role than many are willing to admit. )

Now if the cave shows Rey an endless sequence of alternate Reys as an answer to her questions about identity it could mean that her present memories (who are at best pretty vague), her present thoughts and feelings and her present state of mind is inconsequential but her very existence as a ‘body’ in the here and now is. All the rest is fleeting, …

You could also take it at face value: by showing her the mirror images the cave is telling her that she herself is her own parent because she was recreated, copied, cloned just like in Parfits teletransporter story. I wouldn’t be too shocked if that is something JJ is considering as a big ‘reveal’ for ep9.

Which opens the possibility of a more existentialist view; it doesn’t really matter wether she was cloned or not, her identity is a matter of her own free will. She can choose her own destiny and isn’t being controlled by heritage or her original self. The cave showed her endless possibilities = identities to choose from.


The fact a scene in a genre film, like the cave scene in ep8, triggers such important questions on our own identities outside of the movie theatre while at the same time giving us more than two hours of great pop corn pulp fiction is proof that‘The Last Jedi’, a film that has been described by certain fans as ‘stupid’ is anything but. I can understand people not liking the direction they took the story in, fair enough, but one thing this film isn’t is dumb. It raises very fundamental, philosophical questions.

In fact, as a philosophy teacher I’m looking forward to using the cave scene in class and see what my pupils make of it.

 

If that’s the case they shouldn’t have been involved at all. As I’ve stated numerous times there was no reason for them to be in the new SW films as their story was already told. To take it a step further there is no reason for these films to exist at all as the story of Star Wars was already told in episodes 1-6. Why does anyone have to “carry the torch” the story was already complete. This isn’t the Marvel Universe where you can make an unlimited amount of films. Part of why SW was special was because it had a beginning, middle and end. These new films feel tacked on and simply exist so Disney can make it’s bottom line look better to investors.

As far as the age thing goes I disagree with you. Harrison Ford is preparing to film Indiana Jones V later this year. Not only did he appear in TFA as Han Solo he did it convincingly. Mark Hamill is only 66 years old. He’s still a relatively young man in a world where the 75 year old Rolling Stones are still touring and playing to stadiums full of 60,000 people per show. At the time of her death Carrie Fisher was only 60 years old. They are still vital performers. To say someone is to old to act in a film is simply an example of ageism. Do people have no value once they hit 40 years of age? They didn’t need to be action stars to still be relevant.

Answer this honestly, when the first trailer for TFA appeared were you more excited to see young characters like Poe + Finn or Han Solo?

Just watch this video of the audiences (mostly young people) reaction at Star Wars Celebration when Han + Chewie come on screen. Do you think anyone in that screaming audience thought for one second Harrison Ford is old? No, they thought that is the legendary Han Solo. Quite frankly the new characters (and i think all the new actors are wonderful) are insignificant compared to the true icons of Star Wars...People wanted more Han, Luke and Leia. Those are the characters that touch people. They are the reason Star Wars is special not Rose, Poe + Finn. Disney is going to regret their poor handling of the classic characters going forward, thus the divisive reaction to The Last Jedi

 

Clearly people thought the story wasn't complete with the continuing of the Skywalker storyline.
And they still need the old cast to properly tell this new story.
People have to stop living in the past and let the younger generation have their own Star Wars with their own heroes.

Don't get me wrong, I got nothing against old actors playing important roles in movies, just that in the continuation of Star Wars they would simply have drawn too much attention away from the new cast.
And it's the new cast that has to make these movies now.

Han Solo is Harrison Ford, so yeah people are happy to see him because he's a famous actor and has an established fan-base.
Does that mean we shouldn't give new actors a chance to like them?
My 10 year old daughter absolutely idolizes Rey and BB8 and only vaguely knows Harrison Ford, do you think I have to correct her in that?

My family loves these new chapters of Star Wars, and I for one am glad with this new trilogy.
Those who aren't enjoying it, should simply ignore they exist.

 

Sorry I just don't buy the OP. I felt like it was for the most part, a wasted movie. I've spent like 20 years reading EU and possibilities for a sequel.

And then we get... 2 hours of failure. 30 minutes of cool stuff. Sorry it was just weak imo.