THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

First - this thread is for those who hated the movie. I didn´t hate it. I was dissappointed. I think most of us were. We are not "haters".
I have the bluray collection of the 6 movies. I have TFA bluray, saw it 2 times in cinema, 2 times in IMAX. I loved it. In time, I had more time to think of some aspects, like, the rathars, deus ex popping up for no particular reason that pushing the story forward....I didn´t like Finn. Boyega was overacting, like a clown. But that wasn´t his fault. It was the director´s instruction. His vision of that character, I suppose...But Jakku and Rey was so awesome, the moment the lightsabre flew to her hand was so great I almost forget about the orange Peedunky eyed alien and the fact the sabre pop up out of nowhere, like so many things in TFA. First of all - when Lucas sold the franchise and new movies were announced, I thought it will be like 100 years in the future, with new threats, new villains.....well, set up in a new world.
Then I realized the holy trinity will return. I wasn´t excited. I´ll explain why - As someone who saw Jedi in theater back in 83 I´m a whole life fan. I love the perfect ending in Jedi (yes, the Yub-Nub ending, and without Jedi Rocks, as I´ve seen it for the very first time). I wasn´t interested in seeing my heroes old. Why? The ending was there, they lived happily ever after, they pretty much deserved it, right? Who knows, maybe they could have return as a cameo, as George planned. But not more than that. Why, may you ask? Well, you´ve seen the new movies, you probably know the answer....I was afraid they will not returned as I knew them for so many years. But back then, with fear, I said to myself - let´s see.
And then another news - the movies will shoot at us avery second year, with spin offs in between. Yet another fear. This time I worried about degrading the quality of the stories. As much as you love any of the 3 Disney movies, they have one thing in common. Not a great story telling. 7 - ANH 2.0. No big imagination there. Rogue1 - you know the problems the movie had, and that most of it is not Gareth Edwards. It shows. In the flat characters I never cared. Some incoherence and continuity at the end of the movie. A crazy imperial pilot. Break-dance Vader. Leia. Plans were beamed on this ships....or not. When I was in the opening night, I wrote to my friend in the USA "Tarkin´s there! He looks incredible"!......The first minute. If they manage to do such a great work with cgi character, why push it? Why so much screen time so it becomes obvious and you have time to notice the imperfections? And Leia - my god. They decided this scene in summer, not enough time to make it right....
Finally The Last Jedi. All these movies had so little time to develop a great story, a perfect writing. Because the greedy Trade Federation wanted its money back now! That´s just stupid. TFA did so well because even those who thought it´s ANH 2.0 fell in love with Rey, or just didn´t see a new Star Wars for too long. Like me. I still like the movie. But what´s the point now? You know what? Back then I defended furiously Rey not being Mary Sue. I said so many times she must be Luke´s daughter. She was there as a student and now she remembers all her teachings.....just wait and see 8, it will all be explained....well, now all those who had a different oppinion are just smiling the "told you so" smile....
I downloaded the movie. I can´t watch it. Not even a minute here or there. I just feel too embarassed for the actors who had to do what Rian wrote. And, appologize for this, but I have to say it - Adam Driver performance was great. What was given to Laura Dern - she´s great too. But some of the other main characters - that was just terrible. I´m in love with Daisy Ridley since TFA. I´ve seen her here in Czech Rep. last year when she was shooting Ofelia. She was really bad in Last Jedi. I couldn´t believe what I saw, especially on Ach-To. And some other main characters were not acting great....
This bluray I won´t buy and I still can´t believe it. I lost the interest of future Star Wars movies. I´ve been a fan since 1983! I´m still a fan. My 7y.o. kid is totally devoted. We have the 6 movies. He loves Clone Wars. (both of it). And I supposse that must be enough.
Sadly - and because of TLJ - there is no point for me to watch again TFA. Why? I know it leads nowhere. It ends with Luke, his sad eyes watching Rey (oh, you are finally here).....and what next? I read RottenTomatoes for more then 3 months now. I can assure you 48% is not right. 25% would be more accurate. You can choose any page, or just like me read hundreds of pages. You will see. The movie is 12 days on digital sales now. It still didn´t make to TOP 20 dvd and digital streaming. Here in Prague toy stores are full of TLJ toys. Every Star Wars page, forum or thread I visit there´s like 80% no and 20% yes. The movie made almost 800 less then TFA. And Rian started a week ago the work on his new Star Wars Trilogy? Have anyone seen KK since december????? And those who didn´t like Star Wars (or did JJ say even the name of the movie?) don´t like women/are sexist. That simple
Sadly I don´t trust Disney/KK anymore. I had to go to Last Jedi twice, because I had ticket for more than a month. Guess what. No more Star Wars in cinema for me. Solo is first. Not only because I don´t trust them anymore. Also the short actor and the fact that I never wanted to see a young Solo movie. (I´ve seen him young - in the cantina). And Episode 9 - why? To see those 12 rebels or resistance or whatever fight agains some First Order no one knows where it came from and the rest of the Galaxy is fine with? With it´s limitless resources? To see Rey beating Kylo for the third time? To see Rose´s love for Finn after beeing few hours together? I know, maybe the movie will explain how comes Finn can fly ships now but no, thanks. It doesn´t matter if it follows the absurd way of TLJ or if JJ try a damage control with "april foools, guys, Rey IS someone daghter after all".....whatever he does, it doesn´t matter, 8 will be here forever and because of that, this trilogy doesn´t exist to me. There´s another thing - it pains - John Williams. Remember that bad music for Rogue1? Remember it. Because you will never see the Obi-Wan movie or a decent trilogy with the best music possible. The last years of the great John Williams wasted on this....
I´m sorry if I offend someone. I don´t hate. I´m just sad. George said - fans will love it. But I wouldn´t recicle the same TIE and X-wing fighters and the same ships as 40 years ago. Someone said TLJ was beautifuly made. I think it was Lucas. And I´m sure he meant the visuals. Because even the haters agree that visuals were great. The problem is that someone had in mind pictures that looks great. Example? Wouldn´t be great if bombers approach in slo motion, they look like from world war 2, bombs drop down, there´s a gunner and all.....wouldn´t it look so great on screen??? Yeah, Rian, but as many many of other grat visions you had, it didn´t work. It didn´t make sence. It´s not enough to look cool. Coherence, continuity, dude. 40 years ago have you seen those bombers? Fast as fighters, torpedoes, bombs fired not dropped....today there has to be some improovement, not a step 150 years to the past.....

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 24, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 24, 2018 ---

I was really surprised that the enemy this time is yet another Empire with the white stormtroopers and TIE fighters....I truly believed there will be a new enemy....something new. So much hate on George Lucas and the truth is - look how few people has the imagination he has....

 

I agree. I haven't watched TFA since I saw TLJ, because what's the point? TLJ ruined TFA, not to mention the rest of the saga.

 

The key point is did the ST make Luke, Leia and Han any better and was it worth it? Some will say their characters in the ST are more interesting by not being the heroes we thought after ROTJ, but that still doesn't mean they are better or even worth it. Whatever you want to say about the PT (I have my problems with the execution), it did make the OT better, IMO. It brought out a new layer of the galaxy we never saw (The Jedi Order, Palpatines Arc, The Republic, The Empire, etc) so in the end, I still think the PT was worth it in that respect. The only debatable characters was Anakin as we can argue his arc, but I think PT Obiwan was worth it, PT Palpatine was worth it, etc.

The ST hasn't made anything from the OT better, IMO. As you said, we have another Resistance vs First Order who are loaded with Stormtroopers and a Death Star 3, along with another chosen one. The ST hasn't really taken the Saga in a new direction in terms of the big picture, only pulling the rug out of the fans on certain mystery box questions. The more I think about the ST, the more I lean on the side that the 1-6 story is complete and didn't need anything else after it. The PT and OT have a clear beginning and ending of the story on a Macro Level (The galaxy crumbles in the PT and then defeats the Empire ROTJ) and on a micro level (Luke redeems his father who turned to the darkside). So putting aside the good and bad moments of TFA and TLJ, on a big picture level, I am more convinced this Trilogy is just tacked on and doesn't really fit on a narrative level with the 1-6 story.

 

Hate is the american word for didn't like it. It's a bit strong and rough for us europeans because it is stupid to "hate" a movie.

It's just a word nothing else.

 

Exactly! the first years with the ST I was excited. Then bad things grows in me, but at the end I accepted and continue to like it again through the point of view that "it happened long time ago and the whole story may be slightly different, who remembers nowadays.....and perhaps those are just actors trying to tell us that long forgotten story, so we can forgive some imperfections. The only thing that really bothered me in the ST was not bad acting or the love relationship, and certainly not Ja Jar. The older I am, the more I can see it with a kid's eyes, especially now when I have kids and wish they could enjoy it. I don't need Star Warsto be dark and adult. It was great being a fairy tail, let it be a fairy tal. A good one, please. So, the only thing I didn't like was Padme. She died when I was very young. Not at childbirth, because that way I wouldn't remember she was beautiful, good but sad. TFA was a cheat. But it had Rey and a true Star Wars feel. You were again in that universe. TLJ.....I said to my friends that this will be a great movie, because the director is such a huge fanboy. I was in shock the guy probably don't understand this universe or its characters. And is really terrible writer. The dialoges, the plot holes, ignoring the entire previous movie....writing about that just comes to my mind that anyone now knows Maz Kanata and has her personal phone number. She has so great phone that during the conversation it seems that there are 3 cameras floating around her, taking her from different angles, all that during some intense battle. And the movie is full of this nonsenses. Full. You can't even name it Attention to details.....it's just everywhere and it ruins the suspention of disbelief, when you say in every second scene WTF?!....

 

OK guys, I watched ROTJ this weekend too (I took a 3 month sabbatical of SW movies after TLJ to gain some perspective so I didn't overreact). My post earlier covers how TLJ has ruined TFA. Watching ROTJ and especially the ending, it really leaves me now with no interest in watching the ST. I dare anyone to watch the ending celebration on Endor with Han, Luke and Leia together and then tell me it is enjoyable to watch TLJ and Luke cutting himself off from Han and Leia???? I could have gone along with Luke cutting himself off from the Force, or trying to remake the Jedi Order in a way that it isn't outdated when he meets Rey. But I can't buy the fact that Luke deserted Han/Leia in post-ROTJ (even if he had feelings of killing their son). You watch that ending in ROTJ with them together, and it really is the perfect ending after seeing the TLJ debacle. It became more apparent to me this weekend after watching TFA and then ROTJ how much damage TLJ did to the ST and the Saga.

 

I just want to say that the Yuzhaan Vong would be way better enemies than the empire v2 and would make much more sense I have no idea why the new republic doesn't have an army.

ST literally made the OT pointless., PT showed how palpatine managed to take over the galaxy first with a proxy war and then by becoming a dictator it made sense with the clones, how they were able to overthrow the Jedi. ST doesn't show us anything at all it just tells us this is happening with no explanation. it insults the viewers intelligence and suggests that the viewers aren't thinking off the why and how only the end result.

I cannot for the life of me understand why it's one of the highest rated Star Wars films.

Like the quote ' we don't have the resources of a rebel fleet' really bugged me.

Where is the new republic? The first order should have been this tiny remnant of the empire and it's even mentioned as so in episode 7

All of a sudden in episode 8 they took over the galaxy and the resistance only has a few ships left?

Rubbish, absolute rubbish. No backstory whatsoever to these characters, who was the guy Kylie killed at the start of episode 7? Read the books to find out!

That's what happens when you have no vision or purpose to making these films beyond making money because it's Star Wars.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2018 ---

Hate and disappoint aren't mutually exclusive.

I for one absolutely loathed TLJ whilst being subsequently dissapointed with the consummation of the films eventual release.

 

I think the idea of a resurgence of the Empire into FO could have worked, but both RJ and JJ failed in explaining the setting of their individual films and the whole of the ST. Fans are now guessing as to what has transpired, and we know that eventually they'll come out with backstory and when fans don't like it, fans will be blamed for creating their own head canon. I say they should have given us the setting so that we don't form an inaccurate head canon to begin with. That's on them (JJ, RJ and KK... honestly KK as supervisor should have said "you need to explain where the FO comes from, the state of the galaxy" to JJ right at the beginning. It should have been in the crawl).

I feel how many of you feel. I have next to no faith in the leadership and direction of SW right now. No plans to watch Solo and IX will probably be my first pirated SW movie. I sort of want to watch TLJ again, but it's more out of the curiosity of rubber necking a car wreck, and I can't see a way where I watch that movie again and feel any different, so in a way I just might not bother to avoid feeling as bad as I did my first time around.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2018 ---

I wasn't a huge fan of the Vong, but considering what we got, a modified Yuzhan Vong story line probably would have been better than this. At least we would have had a sense of scope and a sense of the state of the galaxy. It would have expanded on the story rather than make the first 6 movies irrelevant.

 

a great post and I should follow your example and watch ROTJ again. This is how the saga ends!

 

Breaking down barriers and long held beliefs is not something most decent haters in this thread think is bad, but destroying old things that are good and worthy of tradition is bad. Tradition is okay, you know - good things should remain good. They could have easily accomplished your thinking by shaking things up after IX, as SW should be new and fresh, but this imagery is wrong for SW. If you think it's good, than you really need to re-look at the core values of the saga. It really is disappointing to see some fans happy about cleaning house across the board. My wife saw the Tom Hardy arse slap and could't believe what she was watching. This is from a causal fan who can recognize the mockery, liked TFA and hated TLJ more than me when we saw it opening day.

 

So ..... in an attempt to move forward, TLJ is what it is, so, realistically what can/would you like JJ to do to right some of these 'wrongs' without, perhaps, alienating those who did enjoy TLJ? (This might already have been touched upon but it's a damn long thread).

 

I'm of the opinion that there's a large portion of the SW fan base who will simply like/love anything SW. Going with this, I think those who'd complain about any reversals would be no more numerous than those who are unhappy with TLJ. I don't expect there to be any substantial backlash to EPIX, and I don't expect anything JJ does will create a reverse backlash either. Fans will complain, and possibly if they reverse a bunch of things, the haters of today may become the lovers of tomorrow and a portion of the lovers today the haters of tomorrow.

I think a lot of the damage isn't fixable in IX. That said, I'll give it a try.

If they somehow came up with a definitive neutral version of Luke's child killer moment, where Luke doesn't go so dark, that would help for me. I don't see that happening. (Maybe coming from Luke as a FG, or Yoda).

An explanation for Rey (yadayadayada) and the Force and no training ect...

No Reylo (or hints at Reylo).

Doing Finn justice. You can't undue what's been done though.

Give Rose a role that gives her character some purpose.

Having Poe defend some of his "failures" from TLJ. I personally think the bomber part was not a clear cut mistake and may have saved them. There's always loss in war and leaders don't always have the best perspective standing back in relative (and supposed) safety.

I don't care if Rey is a nobody, but she should have an explanation. Maybe a conversation between her and FG Luke.

I'll never be a huge fan of the ST regardless of what they do at this point. So maybe pleasing us haters shouldn't be their priority.

 

A couple of thoughts

1. I know this may seem counterintuitive but there are some people who might describe themselves as hard core fans who never read any of the comics and would have been as unhappy with the Yuuzhan Vong storyline as the existing story line. I don't think the Vong would save this, Snoke and the rise of the FO seemed interesting enough, it wasn't the idea it was the execution.

2. The whole idea of head cannon being the problem for TLJ is a farce. Those of us who wanted a Jedi Finn didn't write a LS into his had and in the promos in TFA. Those who wanted a new Skywalker in Rey didn't create the promo where Luke says, "The Force is strong in my family, I have it, my sisters has it, you have that power too". People who wanted Ben redeemed didn't write the scene where Kylo looks lost, confused, and doubtful after killing Han. The franchise stoked all these fires and allowed one writer to subvert them all. I haven't heard ONE person complain that Snoke wasn't Plagueis as a reason why they don't like TLJ. THAT was head canon, the things that people have complained about were all the allusions that were intentionally displayed and then intentionally subverted for no other reason than the sake of "killing the past". That's on the franchise, not the fans.

3. I suspect EPIX is going to have a serious time jump and there's not going to be much of an attempt to reconcile issues from TLJ because nothing is going to make everyone happy. We'll start (I suspect) in the middle of a conflict unrelated to any of TLJ that is resolved by the end of the movie. Rey, Finn, Poe, Rose, and Kylo will be advanced in their arcs during the jump, and we'll catch them mid stream as well. Whatever they're supposed to be going forward, they'll be 80 - 85% already there when we rejoin them, we'll be left to fill in the blanks on our own via some throwaway dialogue. We'll get to see the last 15% in action during the movie. At least that's my guess.

 

I think that is an impossible ask, as I still see so much division here and elsewhere fundamentally. I suspect that there would be more outrage if they changed everything - with more whining than I could stomach, versus them continuing to burn things.

I personally hate it, but walking back Rey random without a real reason is going to infuriate a lot more than it's worth. While I don't agree, it seems to be something both sides can accept out of everything, or at least do from reading the various forums. JJ needs to give Rey and her family more than a little more, maybe not legendary status, but not drunkards either.

Finn went from bumbling idiot to fighting for his friend in TFA, so he needs to mature and not be the 'ham', which I am sure John will be discussing at length with JJ.

It really is too late now, but they should be briefly discussing the state of the Republic. Where are the forces that didn't bother to respond to Leia, and why?

Where are the sizable Republic flagships to counter the FO? Maybe that was in Aftermath, but I couldn't handle the writing for the first book so I put it down.

Of course, for many it is crucial that the precedent and available backstory for Luke to peep and creep with a light saber on his nephew must be addressed. It won't upset the other side to get more, but it is necessary to appease me.

 

Please don't associate Darth Plagueis with this dude

 

My hope is that JJ retcons a great deal of TLJ. While there's really no way to retcon 1st grade level slapstick comedy out of a movie already released, he can certainly return the tone of the franchise to what it should be.

He can retcon what happened to Luke and Snoke, he can retcon Rey's lineage, and he can return some dignity to Maz, Finn and Poe.

 

He won't recon Rey's lineage because we know Rian and JJ had the same idea for Rey. => A "Nobody".

 

I hear you and feel you but, personally, I think he' going to propel forward at quite a pace with what has been left. I know that certain things, like what you have mentioned, could undoubtedly be reversed/altered but I don't think that will happen. I can' honestly see LFM be seen to lose face with their story choices for TLJ but I'd be extremely happy to be proved wrong.

I think we will definitely see the, hopefully meaningful, inclusion of the Knights of Ren and Luke's obligatory force ghost.

The ST has a rather unsatisfying absence of lore. I thought we might be getting something in that department on Ach-To and the first Jedi Temple. Well, something more than what we got, anyway. I'd like to learn/see some dark side lore but with Snoke gone I guess that's out the window too.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 25, 2018 ---

Was that really JJ's intent too?

 

Well, it gives him an opportunity to create another mystery box.