THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Just saw the deleted Tom Hardy scene and I am baffled. I can't wrap my head around the approach to this movie. I can no longer be convinced Rian didn't come into it planning to ruin the trilogy. I could have argued before that, fine, he just wanted to make a funnier, more lighthearted movie (where a crazed man contemplates murdering his own nephew in his sleep but whatever) than most were expecting and fumbled the ball. But now the humor strikes me as intentional mockery. What does he have against Finn? The character was absolutely destroyed and emasculated beyond belief in TLJ. And now I see Rian wanted to take it further. Just makes me sad. We already got to see him be a buffoonish coward joke in TFA. Why go out of your way to treat him WORSE in this movie? It's not smart, it's not funny. It's embarrassing.

At the same time I've also realized a lot of dialogue in this film is straight up trash like when Rey says, in her most wooden voice possible, "We need you to bring the Jedi back because Kylo Ren is strong with
the dark side of the Force." Comes off like the sort of line a third grader would write just to take up space.

What a nightmare.

 

I can't edit my previous post or else I wouldn't have posted this topic again so soon, but I expanded the data to all the live-action SW movies:


(click image or link to enlarge)

 

It is mind blowing.

 

Finn was my favourite Star Wars character since Qui Gon, and I loved John Boyega's initial performance.. he brought a real Return of the Jedi vibe to TFA.

It was painful to see some of the lines they gave him in TLJ: "Let's go Chrome Dome!" "Oh I HATE these guys!" it really devalued him and made him into a cartoon character. I'm just thankful that they didn't kill him off.

 

I have been wondering if anyone else thought that line and delivery was horrendous. My favorite deleted scene that displays the true genius of Rian Johnson was the one where Rey jokes that they should go behind the rebel base because all of the walkers are firing. So he thought at some point hey I know this is supposedly where Luke is being blown to bits but I feel like this scene could use a gag.

Spoiler: TRUE GENIUS

 

Finn was my favorite of the new characters. I felt there were so many ways they could go with his character, and they would and could all be deep and expanding on parts of the universe we haven't seen before. I haven't taken part in his thread or really talked about him and his role in TLJ because it hurts so much what they did to him. In a way, I'm more hurt to what they did to Finn than what they did to Luke. At least Luke I knew he was going to die in this trilogy, so his arc is over. With Finn, the expectation is that he'll be an ongoing character and someone we can follow through potentially a few more movies. Now that his role in TLJ is canon, it can't but hurt his character development. I feel it lessens him, takes away a lot of the intrigue, his gravitas. I won't go as far as to say he's ruined, but he's definitely damaged. So much so, that I don't think he'll ever fully escape the taint of TLJ has painted on him.

 

Yup, some people will forever remember him for this:

 

I dearly apologize for this statement, It doesn't apply to ALL Star Wars Fans, I shouldn't be on this thread since I enjoyed TLJ, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and also entitled to make fun of whomever they dislike.

 

Ok, so I watched TFA for the first time since December. Just a quick backstory, I loved TFA as it brought back my love for SW again. I have seen it 20+ times in the theater and Bluray.

Sadly, TLJ has now ruined TFA so The Trilogy falls like a house of cards for me. I was watching it and the magic is gone cause it feels like one big head fake. When I see Snoke now, I just don’t care about the character as he’s now a caricature in TFA. Rey has lost that magic as these scenes where Luke/Anakin’s Lightsaber calls to her or she force grabs the Lightsaber to Luke’s music is gone as they are a cheap trick now. And the great ending with Luke and Rey and all I think about is the flip over his shoulder.

I honestly just don’t care anymore as I hoped my love for TFA would rub off on TLJ, but the opposite happened. And who really cares about Episode 9 at this point? I watched TFA tonight hoping it drive me to buy the TLJ Bluray next week, but it’s a waste of time at this point.

Oh well, it is what it is. I love the OT, I like the PT, so they can’t take that away from me. Disney had me with TFA, but lost me with TLJ. And for the Pro-TLJ fans who frequently infiltrate in here, no need to rebutt my post because there is NOTHING you can say that can change my mind. I don’t like TLJ, and it has ruined the ST.

 

They've even managed to ruin ESB a bit for me.. they're so OBSESSED with re-using it's visual elements. It's superficial and uninspired film-making.

I looked over the episode 7 concept art today.. and it's very clear how the film was made once Disney took over:

"Make a script which slaps these 8 pieces of cool concept art together! I don't care if Michael needs time to write it!"

We didn't get the real episode 8.. but we didn't get the real episode 7 either. Michael Arndt's story would have been incredible.



^ Look at that compared to what we got.



It so beautifully sums up JJ Abrams' slapped together rewrite. It lacks the heart, the content.. the magic. It tried too hard to be sparse, to take things back to being a "western" like A New Hope.. but it missed the point of Star Wars. It's supposed to be adventurous, magical and full of life.

The only "life" I saw in these new films was Maz Kanata's castle, Canto Bight.. but those were filled with aliens which weren't Star Wars-like at all.

It isn't George's vision.

JJ did a great job at directing, a 10/10 job.. but he NEVER should have been allowed to write.

All because Disney wanted it done fast, they didn't want to wait until 2016 to start shooting.. and TLJ suffered from the same problem. It was rushed, it didn't take the story anywhere.

There are only six Star Wars films to me. The Last Jedi isn't Star Wars. TFA tried and almost fooled me into thinking it was Star Wars.. it's not.

Michael Arndt had this in the bag - and Disney took him out of the picture. So very sad.. he absolutely nailed Toy Story 3.

 

I liked Man of Steel, but I have to pretend like there weren't any future movies made in its world. I do the same with Wonder Woman which was better. That's how I cope.

 

The Original Trilogy sits at a completely different level than the PT and these new movies. Frankly, Rogue One came closest to capturing that old magic. And considering the OT was settled for 30+ years, it's quite reasonable to disregard this new trilogy as the blatant poorly planned cash grab by Disney that it is. They rushed TFA and TLJ was just them continuing to pay the price of that bad decision. These movies would have been better if they had had more development time and were made 3 years apart like in the old days, and with one person's vision being implemented through each director. But just as in video games and other art forms these days, greed is driving bad creative decision-making.

 

I love how the rotten tomatoes audience score keeps slipping down a slippery slope.

Just shows how polarising the film is.

In my opinion it was crap, worst Star Wars movie I've ever seen

 

That's exactly why these new movies are not Star Wars too me, they just took the heart and soul out of these movies.

 

Moreover, the OT is now pointless.

What is the point of telling the story of a young guy and friends who'll let the galaxy in the exact same situation than before they came to the story ?

What is the difference of the galaxy before and after Luke Skywalker ? There is none. A fascist faction rules the galaxy with few people able to fight it.

Ep IV : A deceiptful hope, a Star Wars waste of time.

 

Ruminating over the last few posts, I have to agree that the heart and soul of SW is missing from TLJ. I can't honestly say the sane for TFA. Whatever that movie's shortcomings are, it felt and behaved like a SW movie, for me, but TLJ just ..... doesn't. Again, for me. As both JJ and RJ have almost entirely disregarded planets and creatures that composed the previous entries in the saga, it feels like a completely new galaxy. Again, I'm going to pains to point out, for me. I think a little more cohesion in this department might have gone a long way.

Somebody mentioned that Rogue One came the closest to capturing the look and spirit of the OT - completely agree and wish the ST was in those people' hands.

 

I just think its weird that none of them would drop in to say something to Rey

 

Then it must have been a huge plan, involving the Disney and LFL higher-ups, the vast majority of critics, and the audiences who gave it an A Cinemascore. Doesn't seem likely.

 

The whole concept of Force Ghosts is ridiculously poorly explained (or, more accurately, not explained at all). I can't fault the ST for that because they are poorly explained in the OT as well, although E8 took it to who whole 'nother level with Yoda's bolt from the blue.

Are Force Ghosts real or do they exist only in Luke's head? My own internal cannon says, to paraphrase Dumbledore, they exist only in Luke's head, but that doesn't mean they aren't real. This has led to endless arguments regarding whether or not anyone besides Luke can see the Anakin-Yoda-Kenobi Ghosts at the end of E6, which I will not delve into here. (You also have to allow for the fact that in E5, the voice Luke hears in his head is also heard by Master Yoda.) For narrative purposes, the audience sees the Force Ghosts but conceptually, Luke's conversations with Force Ghosts are a presence he feels and a voice he hears. (Other conversations are presumaby had off screen between other characters, such as Qui-Gon and Yoda, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, etc)

However, that still leaves a great many things unexplained. Who can a Force Ghost talk to? Can it be anywhere in the galaxy? Can it be at any time? (The answer to those last 2 questions is probably no because in E5 Ben tells Luke he will be unable to help him if he goes to confront Vader.) You'd think that one of Luke's highest priorities after E6 would be to talk to his father. Maybe they can't play catch, but they could still converse (or could they?) Could any Force Ghost drop in for a conversation? I'd think Qui-Gon would probably want to have some say in things going on...

However, regarding the point made that none of them drop in to say something to Rey, that may not necessarily be accurate. Rey has a vision in E7 where she certainly hears voices. Not exactly a conversation, but communication of some sort. Does this imply a certain degree of Force proficiency is needed to "hear" a Force Ghost, and the more proficient, the better the confab? Perhaps....