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What's wrong with Ewoks?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Captain Sabalan, Oct 19, 2014.

  1. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

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    I understand that not everybody likes the Ewoks but I don't agree with your reasoning, or know where you got your 99.9% number. And I don't think ROTJ portrays them that way at all, it maybe doesn't explain their decision process too well but it also doesn't say that they're just blindly following 3PO. Even without them explaining why the Ewoks are fighting I'd think it would go without saying that they aren't being duped by 3PO and the Rebels into fighting for a false god.
     
  2. JacobTheJedi

    JacobTheJedi Rebelscum

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    I was just using 99.9% as an expression. Maybe they intended to portray them differently, but failing to explain anything just happened to portray them in a way nobody really liked. Whether or not this was their intention, the Ewoks were just dorky fuzzballs that obeyed anyone ON SCREEN
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2017 ---
    And surely you could have understood the 99.9% part
     
  3. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

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    That's what I'm saying though, they're not really portrayed that way on screen. They don't seem to obey at all. Even when they thought 3PO was their god he couldn't persuade them to spare Han, Luke and Chewie. The Ewok stealing the speeder bike and clearing out some of the opposition was done without the Rebel's knowledge. And the way the movie makes it out (I forget what the novelization says about it, if they knew there would be a fight) their attack on the Imperials is completely of their own plan. They were just supposed to be showing the Rebels the way to the shield generator, then they were captured the Ewoks launched a surprise attack (surprise to Rebels and Imperials alike) andsaved them. Nobody told them to do any of that, not C-3PO or any other Rebel. Maybe it wasn't explained but their actions seem pretty clear.
     
  4. JacobTheJedi

    JacobTheJedi Rebelscum

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    The Ewoks obeyed because they were scared, not because of any loyalty. The Ewok on the speederbike had no clue what he was doing, he was merely curious. Clearing out the opposition was not his plan. And the surprise attack didn'tportray any loyalty either. It looked as though they were fanatics of some sort. Wether this was the intention or not doesn't matter. What matters is what they were and weren't able to execute on screen. Again the novels and eu came after.
     
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  5. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    They talk with their tongues.....they smell pretty bad.....and they leave the toilet seat up......
     
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  6. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

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    Actually the novelization came out before the film, and I only bring it up because at least it points to what they probably intended. Unlike the standard EU book, novelizations are written during production using scripts and other production materials. You couldn't take everything in them as canon but they could shed light on scenes from the movies. But what you're saying isn't supported by the book or the movie. How do you know the Ewoks only obeyed out of fear? The film doesn't show that, it doesn't show the Ewoks fearing 3PO after the meeting. And it doesn't show 3PO telling them what to do, what it shows is the Ewoks telling 3PO they've decided to help. How do you know what was going through Paploo's head when he stole the speeder? According to canon he did it to clear out the troops. OK, so the film doesn't clearly show that but it also doesn't show he did it out of curiosity, which you claim as if it were a fact. And the surprise attack did show loyalty, because they weren't aiding 3PO they were aiding the others who had been captured. 3PO was the one who appeared to be afraid to play his part in the plan. If you don't like the Ewoks I understand but you're pointing to things that aren't in the movie. Like it or not the Ewoks are meant to be courageous.
     
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  7. JacobTheJedi

    JacobTheJedi Rebelscum

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    It doesn't come down to knowing, it comes down to how it is portrayed. I can't believe I have to explain this so many times to you. Whether or not an emotion is intended, the only thing that matters is if that emotion is executed correctly. Now, you can point to thenovelization and say oh well the Ewoks are actually brave and courageous and not scared of Threepio at all. But, there are no scenes in ROTJ that actually show any real or relatable reason for an Ewoks to care about the rebels. As for the speeder joy ride again there is nothing that shows that he knew what he was doing. When scenes like that give no explanation to whatever is happening, you can only assume that theaudience will not see what the director was seeing. You can write post after post about how that is not what the Ewoks were meant to be like, or how the novelization says otherwise, but as the movie failed to portray theintended purpose of the Ewoks, theaudience was not able to understand. They came to their own conclusions as to how the Ewoks felt and did things based on what was present, not intended. Thus, the Ewoks were portrayed as dumb furry goofballs who randomly acted to please the rebels as a pet would do.
     
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  8. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

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    I understand what you're saying, what I keep telling you is that it's all pretty much right there in the movie. I don't know if this is widespread or not, but this is the first I've ever heard of anybody thinking that the Ewoks were only fighting because they were frightened of 3PO. You say all that matters is what is shown in the movie but there certainly wasn't anything supporting the claims you were making. Where in the film does it say Paploo was only curious? It doesn't but you assume it even though the dialogue does make it seem intentional, Han says "Not bad for a little furball. There's only one left". And the fact that the other Ewoks knew what he was doing and told the Rebels on the approach make it seem to me like it was planned. And there is a scene that shows the Ewoks having a reason to care about the Rebels. That's the whole point of the scene where C-3PO tells the story then the Ewoks agree to make them part of the tribe and help them to the shield generator. The Rebels told their story and the purpose of their mission and they agreed to help. Other than just being the right thing to do they have a very good reason for wanting to help, the Empire is occupying their moon. I think they portrayed them as intended, as well as they needed to be. I'm not saying they're great, there are plenty of reasons to hate them without making them up though.
     
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  9. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Rebel Official

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    They were made to sell toys, and it was obvious. Yet I still personally enjoy them
     
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  10. JacobTheJedi

    JacobTheJedi Rebelscum

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    What I keep trying to tell you is that it doesn't come down to the movie just starting something. A movielike this is not going to just flat out describe the Ewoks, but there is a level of technique required. I'm not saying that there is something in the movie that makes the Ewoks look like the way I describe them, rather a lack of something. There could have been some sort of scene that they could have put in to make show a true bond with the Ewoks, in a person to person way, rather than a pet to person way.
     
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  11. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    The santa one doesn't visit them enough,
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

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    I know there was nothing in the movie that made Ewoks the way you described them, that's the whole point of this discussion. As I keep trying to tell you, stick to the facts or opinions, but don't change the facts to support your opinion. If you think they needed a scene to show more of a bond between the Ewoks and Rebels, I disagree but I can respect that opinion. Making up facts and basing opinions off of that is pointless though.
     
  13. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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  14. JacobTheJedi

    JacobTheJedi Rebelscum

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    I'm not making up facts, that's just general movie logic.
     
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  15. King Chewie

    King Chewie Rebelscum

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    Ewoks are great. Their random alien language is as memorable as many of the lines in the OT.

    Chiminy choo doo!
    Nyub yub!

    I can annoy my siblings for days with lines like these!
     
  16. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

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    No, you literally just made crap up to try and back up your opinion.
     
  17. JacobTheJedi

    JacobTheJedi Rebelscum

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    No, you're just passing it off as crap because you have nothing else to argue except for desperate attempts to make my posts look less valuable.
     
  18. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

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    I hate to break it to you but your posts, on this topic at least, had no value to begin with. You apparently got the wrong impression of what the Ewoks were supposed to be about and all your arguments stem from that misconception. The problem is that where most people would probably just say "Well, I still don't like Ewoks for these other reasons...." you just keep trying to argue your original point and muddying the waters with tired old internet debating techniques. As I've said before, there's plenty not to like about Ewoks without making stuff up. You could say "I think they're too cute/stupid" or that they were just like a marketing gimmick and I wouldn't have commented on your opinion. But you came out of the gate arguing points that aren't supported by anything in the film. When I pointed out things that are actually canon, actually in the movie, you dismissed it entirely. You refuse to hear anything, or believe anything right in front of your eyes, because it doesn't jive with your incorrect assessment. I tried to point out some brave things the Ewoks did in the film since you refused to hear anything outside of the wider canon, and you would just jump to whatever conclusion your theory needed even if nothing in the film supported it. I pointed out Paploo stealing the speeder, without anything in the film or wider canon to back it up you just said he was only curious. It's really amazing how easily you can dismiss anything that is canon but readily believe whatever comes to your mind. This is really turning into a pointless conversation. I probably would have dropped it a long time ago but you're so condescending about it that I keep replying even though I've never been more bored by a conversation.
     
    #178 NunbNuts, Dec 28, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  19. JacobTheJedi

    JacobTheJedi Rebelscum

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    Again, another failed, desperate attempt. You keep saying thesame thing, yet it means nothing because you are blindly arguing against something you refuse to acknowledge. I have acknowledged your points, and I realize that the Ewoks were meant to be something else. However, I have also pointed out that they failed to create this because of a lack of technique and moments that help people understand what the director or writer intended. I'm not arguing based on star wars knowledge, im arguing on basic movie fundamentals, something you clearly don't understand. You say that I refuse to see the points you make, only because your points are pretty stupid and easy to debate. I have watched ROTJ multiple times, and still see nothing to support your idea that it was bravery that motivated Paploo.
    If this is boring, then you must be tired of losing.
     
    #179 JacobTheJedi, Dec 29, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  20. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

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    My problem with them is not that they exist, but the fact that they replaced the Wookies, who were originally going to be the force that helps the Rebellion at the end of Jedi. Wookie warriors are infinitely more convincing as being able to take down the "legion of my best troops" instead of a race of teddy bear people. It was most certainly a merchandising decision by Lucas, sadly. He gave a weak explanation that because Chewbacca was technologically capable, the Wookies themselves couldn't be portrayed as primitives. Of course there are plenty of real world cases of people coming from primitive backgrounds learning to adapt to modernized societies. Not saying that there wouldn't be a place somewhere for Ewoks in the Star Wars films, but not as they were portrayed in Jedi.
     
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