SPECULATION Why Snoke has become most important character

Wait whats all the 'hiding in the unknown regions makes him look weak' stuff...like whats the problem with that? He's the villain not the hero. Palpatine spent years hiding from the jedi, even when he was chancellor.

Plus we already know Snoke is scared of Luke. That he doesn't seem to think he even stands a chance should Luke and 'new jedi' return. So whats the issue with him being a coward, he pretty much is a coward in TFA. he also hides on a specifically hard to locate base if rumours are to be believed, hes not being set out as a brave warrior type.

I kinda hope that Snoke has no powers, and hes like the magician in emerald city, all smoke a mirrors, I know that's been said before but I like the idea.

 

Is this a bigger clue to who Snoke is than we first thought?

are we blindly thinking they are a small band of clan warriors under Kylo's command?

a random bunch of melee weapons and only a few of them... is really bugging me all of a sudden.

plain ol melee weapons? wtf? no good against guns or vibro weapons.

there must be more of them.. lots more of them. Whole new faction/species numbers.

they all have masks on in the vision right? So we dont know how 'human' they are?

am i going mad?

Is kylo ren master of an army those guys?

 

Those don't need to be told to understand the PT. R1 told a great story about how the Rebs got Death Star plans but it wasn't a plot hole.

The Trade Federation were greedy and wanted to control trade routes. Additional information isn't needed.
The Queen was elected. She was the youngest ever apparently they elect Queens. This isn't a plot hole even if there is more to the story.
I love Qui-Gon a good story about him sounds great but the films failures have nothing to do with this.
There once was a Jedi named Syfo-Dyas he ordered an army. Not knowing more about him doesn't effect the story at all.
Huh? Kaminoins were chosen because they were distant and able to do the job. This is all clear in the film. Adding details might make for an great read but its just gravy.
The films state openly and plainly a Sith Lord would be able to disrupt the senses of the Jedi.

I love long movies. I always want more content but these issues aren't plot holes. It sounds to me like even in the novel DP diminished Palpatine as the mastermind. If he is tied to all these sorted plotlines.

Sauron defeated and never able to again take physical form when he does come back he is a flaming eye in a tower takes many years to come back.

Voldemort defeated and needs help from numerous wizards working an elaborate plot plans get foiled many times along the way.

A once defeated but now reintroduced villain is a trope used in many stories dismissing it out of hand seems to ignore that. Lastly isn't the 1st Order a power base, and being in a situation to run it and train new darksiders "getting power back." And doesn't TFA show what Snoke has done with that power.

 

Palpatine didn't disengage and hide until some army cross his path. He was active, he was making things happen, he was engaging in a way that allowed him to continue engaging.

The theory being put forth is that Snoke got beat up by his apprentice(s) and had to into hiding and lick his wounds for years (centuries?) until the remnants of the Empire crossed his path. Thats weak. A sith Lord - one powerful and strong enough to have many apprentices would want revenge, he'd want to get his power back, he'd want to punish those who did that to him.

 

The reason for Plagueis remaining in the shadows is very simple - he was badly wounded! He had to hide out and repair. Serkis said himself that Snoke is vulnerable. It makes perfect sense then that Plagueis was always actively trying to take over, as a dark sider would, when he was Sith (what the hell was Newbie Snoke doing for decades up to his emergence?). Sidious does him over but he survives because he has this cheating death knowledge hat Sidious didn't know he could use to help himself. He went into the UR, furthering his knowledge. Living off of the dark side. But then Sidious is wiped out with Vader and the dark side is weakened. Plagueis has to reemerge or face oblivion. So he lures the remnants of the Empire to him, takes over by displaying his wisdom and special powers and then starts again from where he left off - attempting to get a Skywalker apprentice to feed off of his power.

This way, Sidious' cunning and power remains in tact whilst showing how Plagueis is a different kind of villain and threat. Sidious was an existential threat to the Skywalker's and those on the side of good. Plagueis is more of the devil within. He represents the dark side within the Skywalker's.

 

Personally, while I wouldn't say we have seen the entire order, I don't think the Knights of Ren are an army on their own.

Sauron & Voldermort didn't stay in hiding until an army came and found them. They HAD to stay in hiding cause they were weak and unable to take physical form. Snoke being out in the Uncharted Regions for Thousands of years (Cause that how old he'd have to be for this theory to make sense) isn't him hiding while he regains his strength, its him hiding well past the point because he is scared too/can't do anything else. Thats the difference.

 

Right yeah. I'm pretty much in the camp that belives that Snokes not a Sith. so I can imagine him hiding in space for the duration of the OT and just watching.

Also mad theory:
perhaps he feeds off conflicting dark/light side forces, which would explain why he'd be happy to sit and watch the JEdi/Sith tear each-other apart, it would also explain why he only turned up to interfear after the conflict ended, and why he keeps Kylo Ren conflicted. and also why Luke needs the Jedi to end. If Snoke feeds off the force in conflict then it would explain a lot of that stuff.

 

It's quite funny when people find it strange that a monarch can be elected, when in your home country, Poland (also in Lithuania, since at that time they were basically one state) this was the standard procedure for 200 years.

But why wouldn't he have come to a doctor and pay for his silence about the whole matter? I'm pretty sure reconstructive and plastic surgery were quite advanced in the SW universe and since Plagueis was rich, he wouldn't have had a problem with finding an appropriate specialist. Why choose an exile in bad health when you can do it while being in a good shape?

 

If my theory is right, then Snoke would get his revenge; he'd just have to wait for it. Waiting would be very smart for Snoke. Of the following 3 situations, the third prevents the least resistance for Snoke:

• Time of the Republic: Thousands of Jedis and two Sith
• Time of the Empire: At least two Jedis (Obi-Wan and Yoda) and two sith (Vader and Palpatine)
• Fall of the Empire: One Jedi (Luke)

Snoke was smart for waiting to make his move, not cowardly.

 

The Dark Side is empowered when there is war - hence why the clone wars put the force out of balance to begin with. So I agree with your assertion. Snoke, whoever he is, is likely keen to create a conflict and let his pawns play it out. This will empower the dark side and thus empower him. However, this still requires the destruction of the Jedi as they have the power to end such things.

It still all points to Snoke being very vulnerable and reliant upon some dark side magic to survive.

 

We just got first glipse from newest Canon novel :"Thrawn"about something in the Unknown Regions of the Galaxy.



Aside the fact Thrawn is now again a firm canon character (it was loved by many of us before to), some details are peculiar from that novel.

Thrawn's people originate from the Unknown Regions of the Galaxy, and Palpatine sees Thrawn as a great asset, a source of information about that Unknown Regions which interests him. Thrawn of course uses this Palpatines desire for his own ambition and advances fast in the Imperial military hierarchy.

Here I will give one excerpt from Thrawn novel, introduction of Thrawn and Palpatine.
---------------------------------

“As a start, I offer information,” .... “There are threats lurking in the Unknown Regions, threats that will someday find your Empire. I am familiar with many of them.”

“I will learn of them soon enough on my own,” the Emperor countered placidly. “Can you offer anything more?”

“Perhaps you will learn of them in time to defeat them,” Thrawn said. “Perhaps you will not. What more do I offer? I offer my military skill. You could utilize that skill in making plans to seek out and eliminate these dangers.”

“These threats you speak of,” the Emperor said. “I presume they’re not simply threats to my Empire?”

“No, Your Majesty,” Thrawn said. “They are also threats to my people.”

“And you seek to eliminate all such threats to your people?”

“I do.”

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Plagueis was "killed" by Sidious - he was badly injured by him. He may have saw it coming but believed he'd survive but nevertheless, he was injured. And he had to let Palpatine take over as only he was in position to destroy the Jedi Order. Plagueis couldn't do that - but he could let Sidious do it and then later on find a way to destroy his old apprentice.

But when in exile he is badly injured and vulnerable. I don't think all the credits in the galaxy could sort out his appearance!

 

No he wouldn't - the Sith and Jedi are both gone, except for Luke. The actual people who did that him are long dead. And he was so weak he had to wait until what was left of the Empire stumbled across him before he did anything. He was so "smart" that he waited until there was no one to get his revenge on to get his revenge.

 

Yeah I don't see how he could have been doing anything but hiding.

He wasn't around as a force to be reckoned with during any of the other trilogies and he didn't turn up with some army from another galaxy, and his main field agent is actually a corrupted jedi, so all this points to him not actually being an active or powerful villain before TFA and the build up to it.

so whatever reasoning we put to it, its obvious he was out of action and not doing any noticeable scheming to get revenge on anyone.

 

Indeed - and thus we're left with a few choices:

1. He is an ancient dark sider who just hadn't got involved in galactic affairs - contradicting the nature of those who serve the dark side.

2. He was only recently turned to the dark side - but then where did he learn all this dark side knowledge? And what happened to him?

3. He's Plagueis and has always been involved and only went quiet when he was injured and observing events that he started.

1&2 means no connection to the previous films and requires a lot of exposition. Tacked on. 3 makes perfect sense!

 

He said he saw the Empire rise and Fall - his age is clearly in the hundreds, and the best bet would appear to be that he was out in the Uncharted Regions during the PT and OT. But being someone who didn't care about the Republic or the Empire, who was doing his own thing - following the Path of Ren (whatever his way of viewing the force is), leading his Knights, doing whatever it is that has Thrawn and the Chriss worried about him. Then when the Empire shows up and he sees a group of people he can take over and mold........he does.

He isn't hiding from the Sith and Jedi, he isn't licking his wounds, he just wasn't a factor until some people stumbled over him.

--- Double Post Merged, May 19, 2017, Original Post Date: May 19, 2017 ---

Neither were the Chiss, were they hiding?

Living in the Uncharted Regions and hiding in them are two different things.

 

While you may be right that he wouldn't be able to get revenge on the people that directly betrayed him, I believe that Snoke has a bigger goal in mind: ruling the galaxy. Surely, compared to this lofty goal, petty revenge is not very important. It's also possible that Snoke either did get revenge on those that betrayed him slowly over time (from the shadows), or that he was too weak to do so in the short-term.

Moreover, remember Vader said that the "power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force." So, I think Snoke was rightly more concerned with force-sensitive beings than the strength of the wider Empire.

 

Sauron took thousands of years. His power grew very slowly over that time. Voldemort took a shorter period but both were given reason within the story. You are assuming an ancient darksider is fixed after he got out of the ICU and did nothing for a few thousand years. You are right that's lame. But you provided a poir explanation. Here are several possibilities; Snoke was trapped by something a black hole, a Sith alchemical urn, frozen in carbonite, he (like Darth Maul and Merlin) went nuts after a great tragedy and it took centuries for his addled crazed mind to emerge and begin his plans. How he ends up as leader of the 1st Order that's a whole other question.

Also it should be noted that there are several well received stories in the old EU of ancient dark siders coming back in various ways to run amuck.
1- Freedon Nadd ancient evil Jedi was little more than a spirit met and taught Exar Kun the dark side and then when it was clear that Nadd had plans to use him to "come back" Exar destroyed the spirit.
2- Exar Kun apparently learned the trick because he was a spirit who took possession of young Jedi in the Yavin temple were Luke was trying to raise up new Jedi in the EU.

Its a standard trope. SW uses such tropes all the time I would wait to see if the execute on the trope well before I judge it.

 

I think my theory that Snoke was the rogue Jedi that started the Sith and was then betrayed by his own apprentices would be very easy to explain and would address your concerns. It would show that Snoke is extremely powerful because he had the knowledge to manipulate the force and save himself (unlike Plagueis), but also partially explain why he hasn't been hugely involved in central galactic affairs for a long time (because he was severely wounded).

 

But how did he survive? What happened to his body? Palpatine had to do something with it. Your whole theory that Plagueis is Snoke is based on an assumption that Sidious left Plagueis' corpse unchecked, which is a very flimsy basis. He wouldn't have allowed anyone to know that he had killed someone. I really doubt he left it, just lying around to be found by some random guy or even better, he didn't ensure that his master is completely dead. In Legends bodies of Sith Masters were cremated, just like the ones of Jedi, so it's safe to assume that in present Canon he did something similar, something to ensure nothing of Plagueis is left. How could he have come back, even badly injured, if Palpatine disintegrated his remains?