SPECULATION Why Snoke has become most important character

That's essentially Plagueis though - just without the added extra layer of having created Vader and trained the Emperor. He's just be some conveniently stranded super villain that has all the hallmarks of Plagueis without the Skywalker saga related backstory.

 

Or he used the imp remnant to form the 1st Order. Struck out at the Jedi and the began an attempt to take the galaxy.

 

Literally a million possibilities. Again, look at Maul and Vader. Kenobi presumed both were dead. They were not. They survived.

I don't think the mechanics of his survival are important - just that he has some deep connection to the dark side that helped him cheat death. All we know is that he was killed in his sleep - by bomb, electrocution? Who knows? And perhaps Sidious did see a dead body but it was resurrected by a servant? We know Plagueis may have done this for those he loved...did someone love him?

 

Agreed, but since Lucasfilm has strongly denied Snoke is Plagueis, I think my theory makes a lot of sense. Also, it has the added benefit of allowing Rian Johnson to more easily explore the ancient origins of the Jedi, Sith, and force, which is a direction it appears they're heading.

Also, Snoke would be even more powerful than Plaguies because he is able to save himself from death.

 

Again Sauron and voldermort didn't have a choice and were disembodied. It sounds like Snoke needed needed thousands of years to heal from a broken nose.

Once yuo have to stay adding blackholes or carbonite (which was untested on people at the time of ESB)........your'e getting into overly and needlessly complicated.

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Some of it does - him being an acient Sith who was in the corner whimpering for a thousand years doesn't.

 

You're likely right in thinking it isn't Plagueis. I'm just saying it should be, that the theory would be perfect and nothing contradicts it. There is hope!

I just worry about Newbie Snoke being a tacked on missed opportunity.

 

We've been told seeing the future doesn't work like that. Its difficult to see, always in motion, can't be depend on it etc.... And why would he care if vader and palpatine die and not want revenge on the people who almost killed him a thousand years before that?

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As opposed to the strong villain who BUILT the army to make that happen.......

 

as someone who doesn't know much about Plaguis, I never looked into him at all, I really wouldn't be interested in that reveal. If he was Plagueis why not just call him that from the outset? the reveal that he is plagueis would only be interesting to a handful of fans. it wouldn't make any mass market sense to conceal that.

His story could be anything. but he obviously isn't all powerful or he wouldn't need Kylo Ren, so he must be weak. I assume what Han said to his son
'Snokes using you for your power' is true, and that Snoke must be a very weak creature. hence his fear of Luke Skywalker.

Remeber he never wanted himself or Kylo Ren to confront Skywalker within TFA, that was all Kylo Ren's motivation. Snoke just wanted the map out of the picture, which sounds like the kind of thing someone who doesn't think they could defeat Luke Skywalker would do.

So I'm down with the idea of him hiding. he's basically hiding currently from Luke anyway.

 

And this is why "ressurecting" dead characters is always a bad idea - it builds distrust towards any death of a major character.

But he won't be a newbie. He hadn't popped out of a blue just because there was a power vacuum. The new Canon - as shown by Thrawn or the Aftermath trilogy builds upon an idea that there has been an evil lurking inside the Unknown Regions for centuries, if not millennia. There's much more to him than meets the eye.

 

I totally agree with this. I think the big challenge for Rian Johnson will be giving Snoke an epic backstory without making the explanation too confusing and metaphysical.

 

Snoke being weak goes against the idea that Palpatine was scared of what might been out there, could feel him in the force, that the Chriss/Thrawn were worried about him, would bring into quesitno how he took over the First Order etc..

THe Visual Dictonary also says that Snoke is/was interetsed in Ben because he sees him as the ideal embodiment of the force - combining Light and Dark. Neither hte Jedi or Sith would view the force this way.

Knights of Ren (not Sith or Jedi), apparently not knowing how to build a lightsaber, Kylo not being very good with his lightsaber (Abrams has talked about how the combat in TFA was designed to not be beautiful but just people hacking at each other), only Kylo having a lightsaber, his view on the force.........all this would point to Snoke not being connected to the Jedi or the Sith - which also makes him not being either Jedi or Sith cleaner.

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Why does he need an epic back story? Palpatine didn't have an epic back story. Anakin didn't., Dooku didn't. Maul didn't. Overly complicated backstories are liabilities more often then not.

 

Anakin was the Chosen One, and so he was special in some sense. I agree that Palpatine didn't have a particularly epic backstory in the films, but I don't think Rian Johnson could just say that Snoke is a random baddie that's been hiding in the Unknown Regions for awhile. In order to make the stakes of the sequel trilogy high and not just replay the original trilogy of an Empire versus a Rebellion, I think they need to make the threat of Snoke unique in some sense. Having him be the founder of the Sith would fit the bill and be relatively easy to explain.

 

He is only Random until he says who he is.

Snoke doesn't have to be come acient Sith Lord (kinda goes against what we know of him) to make the stakes high. He just has to prove himself a dangerous adversary.

Making him basically the same as palpatine isn't making him unique. Now I know you're goign tosay - he isn't the same, he isn't a Sith, he has changed. But then why does he need to be ancient Sith to begin with? It adds nothing.

 

All this is making me lean even harder to the side that thinks Snoke is a completely new character.

 

Was he obsessd? We know he was interested in it, does it say anywhere he was obsessed? Where has it say hew as obsessed to the point that he'd allow himself to be killed? Would people like Palpatine and Tarkin really study Plagueis and his methods if he only scared about one thing, and ruling the galaxy, dealing with enemies etc... isn't it? Are you sure I'm the one going by what I want the character to be like?

We do know that Palpatine says the only thing he was scared of was losing his power. Would you call being nearly killed by yourapprentice and forced to run to the Uncharted regions losing your power?

Also, didn't Palpatine kill Plagueis in his sleep? How doe that scare him like it some are claiming?

 

"No one knows the limits of his own power until it has been tested to the utmost, as yours has not been. That day may yet come." - Snoke to Kylo Ren

For me, Plagueis makes most sense story-wise. Let's just pretend he's Snoke for a moment:

• He follows the successful movie trope of other overarching villains such as Suaron, Voldemort, the White Walkers. Referenced in the beginning chapter. Influenced preluding events leading to the main plot. Behind the scenes. Hiding. Escaped death. Weakened. Injured. Myth. Sustained unnatural life. Seeking to recover lost power. Plotting a return. Would Disney ignore what works for other blockbuster franchises?
• He's the most relatable option for casual fans as the Emperor's former Master. With the addition of being the easiest way to explain his severe injuries. They share similar musical themes. Same goals. Same entrance onto the big screen. The connections are already there between the two.
• His story is associated with the symbolism of the Snake (Snoke?). Healing. Fertility. Immortality. Rebirth. Transformation. Deception. Vengefulness.
• He takes the Light v Dark battle up a notch by achieving a power on the level of Jedi Force ghosts as a possible reanimated Force zombie.
• He hid during the main plot because Sidious and Vader were already completing his goal of destroying the Jedi. Plus he didn't have the required power to defeat Sidious and Vader combined. He's vulnerable. This is evident by the fact he waited nearly 30 years just to train an apprentice to defeat Skywalker.
• He explains Kylo's Vader obsession. He originally envisioned Vader destroying the Jedi but his "momentary lapse" meant he had to create a new Vader. With his intimate knowledge of the Skywalkers, he realises Ben is the best option to complete what he believes was Vader's true destiny.
• He no longer uses the Sith ways to avoid past mistakes and past connections. He doesn't want a repeat of Sidious and Vader betrayal so he calls Kylo the "Master" instead. In a way, he has kinda "inversed" the Sith Master-apprentice relstionship.
• He believes the strategy of Sidious wasn't a mistake. He feels the stumbling point was Vader's sentiment. So he continues the Emperor's plan and legacy by building a new Empire. To do this, he constructs a superweapon, raises a stormtrooper army and converts a Skywalker boy to become Dark side apprentice. This would've always been his plan from the beginning anyway.

 

Who says those are the most successful movie villains? You also didn't name 1 Disney villain in there.

Why do they want to just make Snoke the Emperor 2.0?

So hes Emperor 2.0 but weaker.......

Whyw ould he want a new vader? He has no connection to vader.

Do you really think Kylo believes he is the master in this relationship? And you're suggesting someone who was betrayed and almost killed by 1 apprentice is going to fix that situation by having multiple apprentices?

 

There are many ways to tell the story if Snoke the ancient evil now resurgent. They haven't told the story or given all the details so judging the story from scant info seems off to me. This sort of ancient villain brought back to cause havoc work all the time. There are even examples within the EU of such things. Calling such a villain weak presupposes things to make that determination. Perhaps people are responding to specific ideas here and raising specific objections but the general idea works which, many versions of the trope show it can then the issue of execution is the issue. Perhaps like Sauron he has to regain power before he can gain influence. Only recently was stirred and once released, revived, or discovered he takes command or sets about conquering the imp remnant and forges the 1st Order. They have new tech new structure, new methods perhaps this is evidence of his schemes and leadership.

There are many ways to tell the story of DP. I don't think its likely but he could be all but dead and over 50 some years reforms studies the situation and strikes out. There are lots of unanswered questions that would need addressing but just like an ancient evil he could be reforming, he might be trapped until released, perhaps even now he is slowly healing his own body.

Snoke could be a governor that backed Palatine and loyal to the Empire has named himself Supreme Leader of a new sect the 1st Order. Perhaps he is one of the many test contingencies of Palatine. In the Vader comic there was the Cylo project of force sensitive cyborgs who Palpatine used as agent that might one day replace Vader. There was a Grand Inquisitor and at least 8 inquisitors. One of them could have been given instructions on forming a new fleet and army to get revenge. Maybe Snoke is a cult leader who worship the Darkside or Vader. He sees himself as the New Emperor or as a darkside prophet guiding the heir to Vader's legacy into darkness and the entire 1st Order is part of his efforts to see Vader's grandson take the throne.

Frankly I see something like option 3 the most likely case and DP is the least likely. But we don't know everything yet.