SPECULATION Why Snoke has become most important character

You are of course correct the "force struck back" its been so long not sure if that comment was just me being sloopy and offering the brief "DP did it" explanation or if it was before I learned about the Tarkin novel comment.

Now I disagree that Snoke has to be "greater" than Palpatine. For one I think SW is written better than your standard action sequel logic of bigger explosions 2x the enemies. If the ST has a solid villain that is a compelling antagonist there is no need to "turn the amps up to 11." This especially is true if Snoke's not the real threat. He could easily be simply the future dead master of BBEG Kylo Ren.

Depending on who Snoke is he or DP would have to answer the question of what took so long. Assuming ROTS Palpatine told the truth. Now there are some easy answers. Someone even brought up Sauron from LOTR the dead or nearly destroyed Snoke/DP was a fraction of their former selves and it took many many years to return to full or at least exercisable power.

Snoke could follow the EU trope of being the "trapped/localized" villain who now freed or discovered corrupts young Ben Solo.

Either way I am hoping Ben temper tantrums Snoke out of the picture declares himself leader of the 1st Order and crushes all complainers until moral improves.

The other option is more for Snoke than DP. He waited because he is the contingency plan. JJ referred to the 1st Order like the Nazi that fled to South America hoping to regroup and set up the 4th Reich. Snoke could be Palpatine's pick to lead the resurgent forces.

 

DP shifts the focus from a saga that hangs on Anakin the chosen one; fall, redemption and legacy. To DP's long scheme. DP isn't needed to hold things together. Anakin does. Making DP the one REALLY responsible is a disservice to the victory already won.

If people like the characters and the story is great there is no need for bigger and bigger scope. The stakes in SW have always been personal and galaxy. The ST is in the same zone.

 

Or Anakin's story isn't ever going to end until the man that created him is wiped out. We are seeing now that the legacy of Vader lives on through Kylo Ren. This dark legacy was kicked off by Plagueis who likely would've created Anakin to eventually be his apprentice and means for galactic/Force domination. It makes it all about Anakin rather than having an unconnected villain who has no baring on Anakin's story.

 

But already retcons the existing focus. It minimizes Anakin to elevate DP. It turns THE CHOSEN ONE into a creation of the true bad guy.

It could happen though I heavily doubt it.

 

It's a fair point. I guess what I'll say is that the stakes need to be raised - and they were pretty high in the OT. But anyone who knows good storytelling knows that there's no point in continuing the story unless the stakes are raised.

 

My 2 cents:

• I feel strongly that Snoke being DP would be bad narrative. But this is my opinion.
• Snoke being DP would influence how we see the PT and OT. Do you guys really think that Disney/LFL would go for a plot point that somehow alters the perception of the classic movies? IMHO, I strongly doubt this.
• Some people are too trapped in the idea that Snoke somehow needs to be superior to Palpatine in order to make the sequels work. He doesn't, because none of the SW movies were really about Palpatine. They are always about the Skywalkers.
• Occam's razor: Snoke is a completely new character from the Unknown Regions (something that is already being hinted at by the novels). Being from that place means he doesn't really need to be comparable to Palpatine or anyone else. He is just different. A new evil guy who will - like Palpatine - be a support structure for the bad guy that really matters, Kylo Ren.
• Wouldn't it be great to have a discussion about Snoke that doesn't devolve into the Plagueis theory all over again? If you think about it, there are so many nice possibilities for Snoke. But every time he is mentioned the community goes back to the Plagueis obsession. Plagueis is a very unoriginal choice. Both for LFL and for us to discuss.

And just to be clear, I don't mean to offend anyone's opinions. Maybe Snoke is Plagueis after all. But I really doubt it.

 

This doesn't happen if the story is that Snoke-as-DP cheated death, tipped the scales of the Force, and the Force's answer is the chosen one, Anakin. Then the story is still about Anakin, and his ultimate redemption, which happens when the Force is in balance. This happens upon the death of Snoke-as-DP, the redemption (preferable) or death of Kylo Ren, the closure of Luke's story through heroic death after the training and shepherding of Rey, and the balance of the Force living on through Rey as new central legacy character. This would still make Anakin the central character of the entire arc, and shift Luke into the position of Obi Wan and Rey into lead hero a-la Luke.

But this could just as easily work if Snoke isn't DP if the writers retcon Snoke into essentially the position of DP, an ultimate Sith or ancient dark jedi that has been there all along in the background and manipulated the Force, tricked Palpatine, etc. This isn't as clean as it just being DP, and it cheapens Palpatine, but I can see the writers and Pablo doing this if they're stubborn and headstrong and have behind-the-scenes vowed to shift from the PT, Lucas' vision, and the idea of DP.

What doesn't work is if Snoke is just...Snoke. Generic baddie that appears from nowhere, has no connection to the past threads, and is just some extra-terrestrial evil. THAT would cheapen the whole arc. People make quite a bit of fun of Lucas and McCallum saying "it's poetry," or "it rhymes." But....they're absolutely right. The intent was for these 9 movies to tell an overarching arc, a singular tale made of generational parts. It's supposed to not only be a good, well-connected story, but a lesson and a meditation of what makes us good and what makes us evil and the importance (or un-importance) of faith and chance/will of the universe on that. A generic big bad that is shoehorned in would not "rhyme," and would not serve the story cycle and story arc.

I believe the story group is smarter than that, though, and Snoke will be somehow tied into the past in a way to make him relevant to the arc.

 

Except Plagueis is a Sith.
https://moviepilot.com/posts/3719178

 

Definitely. Since present Canon is delving deeper and deeper into the past of the GFFA and the history and origins of the Jedi Order I believe Snoke will be tied to some extent to this period and will be an ancient evil that has just recently awoken, akin to Sauron.

 

Exactly. Though I don't think DP cheating death would cause the imbalance, I agree with every other sentiment. If Snoke is just Snoke and he is the main villain (in terms of who is pulling the strings) then it is very jarring. It feels like ROTJ was a full stop and this is w way of rebooting the story. If Snoke is DP then it creates a natural continuation - tying Snoke to both Vader's/Kylo's origins and the overall story arc of 1-6.

The fact is that the balance of the Force didn't start to slip until the events of TPM. These events were directly tied to Palpatine and arguably Plagueis. And it could be said that they both, or just Plagueis, created Anakin several years before. Thus everything that has occurred began with Plagueis' actions - thus wouldn't it by poetic and metaphorically satisfying if this saga came to a close with the actual death of Plagueis?

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2017, Original Post Date: May 18, 2017 ---

So was Maul...

 

Yes thats what I'ms saying.

Maul was done in a lame attempt to bring back an old villain they wanted to use but made the mistake of killing off. Plagueis isn't that. Going to the lengths they'd have too to explain everything just to have Snoke be a character that a small percent of the audience knows makes zero sense.

 

According to canon novel Tarkin: Plagueis believed (feared) Force could strike back on him because he accumulated such power that it was inevaitable he caused inbalance of the Force.

 

The whole point of RotS is that Palpatine lies to Anakin, gets what he wants, and then Anakin finds out he sold his soul for nothing.

Palpatine tells himt he ability to keep death is something only 1 person has figured out - and thats Qui-Gon.

 

I must protest on yours (and many others ) taking right to negate Canon, and a Canon book "Tarkin" canonizes Darth Plagueis the Wise and his extraordinary acheivements described by Palpatine in the film.

It has been enough of this ignorance all over this respected forum.

Novel" Tarkin" (CANON):

-Plagueis really is Sidious' master, he's not something Sidious made up just to dupe Anakin.
-Sidious was still Plagueis' apprentice several years after he was appointed as Naboo senator. It is not clear if Plagueis lives until the events of TPM as is the case in DP novel.
-Plaguies once remarked that "the Force can strike back". Sidious ultimate goal is to make certain that the Force could not strike back.
-Related to the point above, Sidious seeks to use the power of the dark side to reshape reality itself, to fashion his own universe. He remarked that he wants influence of the ultimate sort, not just mere immortality like Plagueis.
-Plagueis' species is not mentioned.
-Plagueis' end is not elaborated. Sidious only remarked that Plagueis could not foreseen his apprentice becoming an Emperor.
-Tarkin studied Darth Plagueis.
-Vader studied Darth Plagueis.
-Palpatine ramarks Plagueis giving him "posthumous" credit of been truly great and wise Sith Lord and strategian.

 

It has been said more than once by official sources that Snoke is just Snoke.

I think they have been hinting at him as the "something from the unknown regions" in the Aftermath series and I also think they were making the references in Thrawn as the "pure evil" that exists in the unknown regions as a threat to the Chiss Ascendency.