Will Rey turn to the dark side?

It completely applies to Rey. She is great at everything she tries pretty much instantly, requires no help from anyone at any point, ends up with the special weapon etc..... They went so far as to have the hero beat the villain (with no training mind you) IN THE FIRST ACT. That's bad storytelling 101. Rey needed to LOSE to Kylo (if engage him at all, she probably should have just run) and lose to him against in TLJ so that in the finale she has something to actually over come.

A small freak out doesn't negate the fact that shes great at everything and basically a perfect character.

And no the term doesn't apply to everyone else - most other characters are great 1-2 things but have things they aren't good at/can't do. What can't Rey do?

 

"Mary Sue" refers to more than just being good at everything. It refers to a completely idealized character. And as I said, Rey is idealized in many ways, but she does have flaws, however much you seem to want to sweep them under the rug to support your argument.

And we're really just in the first act of this franchise, as you pointed out. There really wasn't much inkling that Luke might go dark at any point in ANH, yet by ROTJ it was a bit of a threat (by the way... Luke beat the "bad guys" in the first movie of that trilogy, too...).

I don't think it's a certainty, but to completely discount the idea that Rey might be a more complex and possibly dark character just because of some perceived political agenda seems a bit paranoid and naive to me.

 

It seems to me that the light and dark roles have been casts and they both seem pretty solidly on their respective paths. Following the SW playbook, Kylo will be redeemed at some point due to Reys actions and another sacrifice. Rey will remain on the "good" side and Kylo will come to her side eventually. I say "good" side because I dont think there will be a light and dark side after this movie. Not in the same sense that it has been at least.

 

Luke blew up the Death Star in the 1st act.

Humiliated villains grow too.

 

Not really. Not accpting her destiny RIGHT AWAY isn't really much of a flaw.

Really? Luke defeated Vader in combat? When did that happen. I must have missed that scene.

And no - believing Kennedy will allow the flag ship of her obvious push ont he diversity side to be viewed as anything other then heroic (to the point where she is a mary sue) is the naive thing.

 

In your mind, I suppose.

Really? It's a pretty famous scene. See, Luke evades Vader long enough for support to come in the form of the falcon, the blows up the Death Star effectively defeating the villains.

I'd say I'm surprised you haven't heard of it, but... well, I've seen some of your other posts.

Again with the buzzwords and assumptions made off of only two movies (neither of which share any characters...). I get that the point of these forums is to discuss the films, including elements that have not yet been released, but I think that making such sweeping statements with so little information and then calling others naive is a bit silly.

 

No.

 

LOL - you can't even counter my statement. So Rey's ONLY flaw is that she didn't accept her destiny RIGHT AWAY. Wow, what a solid case against her being a Mary Sue.

You mean when Lukes friend dies protecting, Vader misses and hits R2, then Han saves Luke, who is flying something he's done since he was 10 years old. Yes, I can see how that is comparable to Rey defeating Kylo, an experienced combatant, in a one-on-one lightsaber duel THE FIRST TIME she's used a lightsaber. And her using the force without training TWICE, and out flying First Order pilots, and knowing how t use the computers on Hans ship, and sniping First Order stormtroopers the first time shes used a blaster. And beating up a trained soldier. And being better then Han and Chewie and fixing the Falcon. Yes, Luke flying back and forth while Vader kills another pilot, misses a shot and is knocked out of the trench by someone else is totally comparable.

3 movies an its pretty clear when all the new heroes (main heroes anyway) are women or minorities and allt he villains are white men (and 1 white woman who replaced a white man late in the process), when there is a toy line and cartoon aimed specifically at girls, and the writers of one of the movies are tweeting about it. Ignoring all this and being blind to the obvious message/agenda of Kennedy and co. is naive. I'm not passing judgement on where the message/agenda is good or bad - thats a different discussion. But its OBVIOUSLY there.

And if you need right from the horses mouth - http://ew.com/article/2015/04/16/star-wars-female-characters/ - "Kennedy promised that the future episodic films and standalone spin-offs would feature a number of “really strong women.”" Not we're going to tell good stories, not we're going to let great creatives play with our toys. But they will feature strong women.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 20, 2017 ---

Regarding Rey vs Kylo

I practice Kendo and Iaido (Kendo being one of the main influences on Lightsaber combat), I know a bit about sword fighting. When some who has never picked up a sword fights something who knows what their doing, it looks like this: (go to 2:05) -

So the idea that Rey, who has never used a lightsaber before is going to hold her own again, and then defeat an experienced combatant........

 

I mean, it's kinda like that old saying about playing chess with a pigeon. I have already provided my input for countering your statement. I don't care if you personally find it to your satisfaction or not.

I mean, you can frame it in any asinine way you want, but the way it breaks down is Luke and Vader come into conflict, Luke walks away the clear victor.

And I'm frankly amazed (well, I would be if I was speaking with someone else) that you see fit to take such a thorough view of ANH while completely disregarding the cost paid at the end of TFA. Han is dead, Finn is wounded, the Resistance lost pilots... and honestly, it's very clear that the only reason Rey or Finn even stood a chance is because Kylo was wounded by the bowcaster. Please, I enjoy debate, but there's no reason to employ such ridiculous double-standards just in the hopes that you could say you were right on the internet.

What third movie have you seen?
Let's look at what we have here:
Rey, Finn, Kylo, Poe.
Sort of an ensemble cast. I'd totally agree that Rey is the main main character of trilogy (we'll get back to that word later) but she's also the only woman of the four (and the first woman to be the main main character in a Star Wars movie after over 7 films and nearly 40 years, at the time).
And if that mysterious 3rd movie was The Last Jedi (which neither of us has seen, by the way)... well, what do you suggest? Switching out the main character of a trilogy one installment in?

Now, on to Rogue One. Another female protagonist. Somehow, that's notable to you (and it should be, because that's sadly how our culture works). But from a more optimistic point of view, that's like thinking a coin is rigged after rolling heads twice in a row. Hardly indicative of a pattern.

On to the Forces of Destiny. Yes, Star Wars is getting a cartoon about strong female characters. It's almost as if they realize how underused they are, and also want to reach out more to young girls and make them feel comfortable being future Star Wars fans.

Is Star Wars more inclusive than it used to be? You betcha. Is there some "agenda"? I mean, if the agenda is to be more inclusive, then sure. But to read into it any more than that right now is not only naive and paranoid, it's downright bitter.

I really fail to see an issue with that, but okay...?

That's very cool, and I'm sure we're all proud of you here, but since you haven't had the time to address/ignore the bowcaster wound claim, I think that's a big part of this. I'm sure you know well how difficult it would be to do your Kendo with a grievous wound.

 

Not until episode 10 or 11.

 

You can't say nothing then say you proved your point.

Its an apples to oranges comparison and claiming its not is completely dishonest, and I think you realize that. Rey and Kylo FOUGHT, they had a direct conflict with one another, in which Rey was a novice and Kylo was at least experienced, if not an expert or master. Luke was basically running from Vader who was thwarted by OTHER people and a droid. What did Luke himself do to take out/defeat Vader? Not destroy the Death Star, defeat Vader?

Rey cost did Rey pay? What loss did she suffer?

We haven't seen Last Jedi, but we've been introduced to the actors and characters as for the rest of what you typed - I have no idea what your point is.

Stop with this garbage like "women in lead roles is somethnig new" you sound stupid. At least your now admitting Kennedy's agenda/message (again, I'm not engaging on the merits or draw backs of it- thats a different discussion, and given your comments one it seems you can't have with insulting people). So you now understand WHY Rey will not turn evil, and if TFA is any indication will come out the end of the ST looking like the strongest hero Star Wars has ever seen.

Kylo was able to get out of the bunker, find and catch up to abled bodied people in snow on uneven terrain, and defeat Finn with that horrible, terrible, hampering wound......ya it really seemed to hold him back. On the contrary, he was HITTING THE WOUND to cause more pain to fuel his connect to the force. The wound was an advantage to Kylo.

And pro-tip - it doesn't work to claim I'm ignoring your points when you make the point in the same post you're saying I ignored it in.

 

Look, I don't want to get into some childish circular debate with you, but your counter argument is

All you've done is given your opinion. It's nothing substantial, so I cannot begin to address it in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, ball's still in your court, if you want to have an actual discussion on it.

I mean, I think that as with all things we're simply not going to see eye to eye on this, but if you think the one specific defining factor of this is that it was a sword fight over a dog fight (discounting Anakin's legendary prowess as a pilot, by the way) then I'm afraid you're horribly oversimplifying the issue.

I think you're trying to ask what cost Rey paid? Well, she lost two huge allies- one permanently, one probably temporarily.

Don't tell me what to stop or do, thank you very much. I don't really trust your judgment calls anyway.

And I absolutely do not "understand WHY Rey will not turn evil." I think you're projecting your own issues or perceptions onto this franchise, if anything.

First- let's see Finn go toe to toe against trained and somewhat healthy force user like Maul. I have a feeling it would look more like this, but with Maul on the winning side

Without considering Kylo's relative inexperience and wound, it's actually pretty surprising Finn held his own for nearly as long as he did. But I don't see you calling him "Gary Stu." Hmmmm...

Second- sure it may have fueled his connection to the force, but it was still a horrible wound. Dark side users don't continually get stronger and stronger until they die when they receive wounds in combat...

I'm gonna be honest, I have no idea what you're trying to say here, much less what you're attempting to refer to. But again, I think I'll get my advice from a source I find reliable, thanks.

 

So nothing. Got it. Rey is Mary Sue, the only flaw you can think isn't really a flaw. Settled.

Luke and Vader weren't in a dog fight - they are not combat, Luke is in a bombing run and Vader is chasing him. I noticed you couldn't tell me wat LUke actually did to defeat Vader in this scene..........

So the price Rey paid was that other charactesr paid the price......... yep not a Mary Sue at all.

Yes you do understand. You admitted that you see Kennedy's message/agenda - and that message/agenda is why Rey won't turn evil. We're done here.

Finn did go toe to toe with a trained lightsaber combatant who was BENEFITTING FROM HIS INJURY. We don't need to guess how it would go. Finn would lose after a short, decent struggle.

 

Yeah, I don't know why I ever really start with you. I guess you could go back and actually read where I addressed all that, but I imagine you'd "pigeon playing chess it" again and claim that my argument has no substance simply because I refuse to retype it every time you completely fail to understand this discussion. If anyone wants to pick up on this babysitting for me, feel free.

It just gets boring after a while, really. I'm out.

 

What's the problem with strong female characters?

As for the question from the original post. I don't see Rey turning dark. She will likely be tempted. I think we saw a glimpse of that in TFA before the ground split apart. The ground splitting apart helped make the decision for her. This time it likely won't be as easy for her. She's not going to turn though.

 

Luke beat the tar out of Vader in front of the Emperor. Cut his hand off too.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 21, 2017 ---

She defiantly is no Jedi and not basking in the light either.

 

Sorry what did she do morally compromising. Suggest revenge. But then turned her sabres off and tell him she won't leave? That is some major light side.

 

I agree. I don't think Rey will turn. I believe this is Rey's Hero's Journey. I think in any journey the hero is going to be tempted and conflicted. They will have the internal and external battle but in the end, they will prevail.

 

It is an attachment to her Master. That is not the Jedi way.

 

She's not a Jedi. Not every light sider is a Jedi.