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"You still want to kill me...." What does Kylo Ren mean?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by FN-3263827, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i keep coming back to this line when Rey awakens in Kylo Ren's prison. He's crouching in the corner like a weirdo, calls her his "guest", and proceeds to kindly tell her that he has no idea where her "murderers, traitor and thieves" are as if she should be pleased to hear it.

    then he says: "You still want to kill me...."

    is he surprised? can he be that deluded? is he teasing? how else should she feel about him?

    it's perhaps worth noting that in the book and screenplay, she's not actually restrained to the chair when she wakes up. even in the movie he's deliberately treating her much differently than Poe. and he concedes to take his mask off as though to prove he's not a "creature".

    but the line still seems very strange to me. any thoughts on the subtext for this one?
     
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  2. OKP23

    OKP23 Clone Commander

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    Well she was shooting at him earlier in the woods. He sensed that same aggression in the interrogation.
     
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  3. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    I believe stuff got cut from their "introduction" on Takodana.


    If you add this in, the latter reference during the interrogation makes more sense.
     
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  4. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    yes, but that seems obviously the case. i wasn't sure why he stated is so particularly.

    ah totally! there it is!

    thank you!

    i did read the book on an airplane coming home from the holidays, but have seen the film many times since and didn't recall this. i would have liked to have seen it left in ~ it's a good exchange.

    will have to go back and reread the book.
     
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  5. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Well she did try to kill him in the Takodana forest. He only defended himself (again an inversion- the light side for defense, the dark side for attack) She fears him and her natural automatic survival response kicks in and she tries to eliminate the threat. She also tried to shoot first when she encountered the stormtroopers in the forest, but her weapon jammed. She turns her fear into agression. I think that is what makes Kylo so impressed and so 'fraternal' in that interrogation scene with her. He recognizes something of himself in her.
     
    #5 Ammianus Marcellinus, Jan 23, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2016
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    definitely! i think he sees a doorway there in her knee-jerk aggression.
     
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  7. Jadore4

    Jadore4 Rebel Trooper

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    It is a peculiar line without the conversation from the book (although I'm grateful they cut a lot of the Kylo Ren dialogue from the book -- too freaking chatty! I thought he was more menacing with fewer lines).

    So, when they cut the film, they left that line in for some reason. I'd hate for it to be sloppy editing or just so Rey had a reason to say, "That's what happens when you're hunted by a creature in a mask." The best reasoning I can come up with is that maybe he is surprised she's angry rather than afraid given his display of power.
     
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i really like that explanation! it's a really good point: he would expect fear, but instead she's just pissed off and that surprises him.

    and yes, a good reason to leave the line in even though they cut out the original connecting dialogue.

    Kylo Ren is already downright chatty compared to Vader, so i think it was intentional, but i guess i'm glad they showed more restraint with him in the final edit too.
     
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  9. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    I guess there is more subtext. He read her mind before- before they met in the Takodana forest. They are no strangers to each other. Physical distance is irrelevant.

    From the novelization:

    Rey " Where am I?"
    Ren " does the physical location really matter so much?"


    Assumed that a person being strong with the force can recall a vision, perhaps he wanted to test her abilities? Perhaps he thought she could recall that vision of him...?
     
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  10. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i don't think he knew for sure she was FS yet. i think he has some sense about her in the book, if i recollect, but in the movie, there's no indication that he's aware of her powers until he tries to get into her head and she resists it.

    but i do agree that he's testing her reactions, regardless of whether she's FS or no.
     
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  11. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    Matt straight up sucks
     
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  12. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    say what? are you talking about the radar technician?
     
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  13. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    She saw the murdering commander that he was...ordering those around him to kill all of those seemingly innocent people. He knows, based on the fact that she was shooting to kill him, that she wanted him dead.
     
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  14. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i was more asking why he brought it up in the specific moment, but yeah, that's what he's referring to, just generally her state of mind. thanks!
     
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  15. Rey24B

    Rey24B Rebel General

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    He attacked her and her friends, stalked her through the woods like a killer from a Slasher film, paralyzed her and then starting painfully digging into her mind using The Force, threatened her with a lightsaber, knocked her out cold ad kidnapped her, and now she's woken up to find herself strapped to his creepy torture table in his creepy torture room, with him creepily sitting in the corner watching her. Oh and he insulted her friends to her face.

    Also in the earlier forest scene, I got the sense that he was toying with her a bit. He was clearly intrigued by her ever sense that one FO officer told him about "the girl on Jakku." Like he could have frozen her right away, but instead he staked her for awhile, let her shoot at him so that he could show off/look cool, an the whole time she was terrified to point of being on the verge of tears. And again, he's toying with her during the interrogation scene as well. It becomes all the more apparent when you compare how he treats her in those scenes vs. how he treated Poe Dameron in the earlier ones.

    Yeah, I'd probably want to kill him to if I were in her position. He probably sensed that, and when she asked about her friends whereabouts, gave her a "reassuring" answer "you'll be relieved to hear that I have no idea" in order to try and placate her, which didn't work.
     
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  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    yeah it seems like a no-brainer. was trying to figure out his motive for actually saying it out loud to her in that moment. but it makes sense in context of marveling at her ability to hold her hatred rather than prioritize a desire to escape, for example.
     
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  17. Jadore4

    Jadore4 Rebel Trooper

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    She probably didn't get to have her muffin yet. I might want to kill someone if I missed breakfast too.
     
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  18. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    If Kylo really is convinced of his belief that he is on the good side of the fence than it also totally makes sense why he would be surprised that she still wants to kill him. He thinks he is the good guy after all with a mission with a certain urgency. He feels his own emotions in Rey's mind. Naturally he concludes that she is on his side. He recognizes himself in her mind. That is why he was somewhat caught off guard in the forest. He thought that they were so similar that when he told Rey "You need a teacher.I can teach you the ways of the force", she would be naturally inclined to comply. He knows how powerful she can become if she taps into the force from the emotional state he recognizes she's in.
     
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  19. FotisKaragian

    FotisKaragian Rebel General

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    Apart from all the other things that people have said earlier, a good and common interrogation technique is to try to calm the person interrogated. I think Kylo does that as well, all dark siders do that if you recall. Dooku tries to take Obi Wan on his side, Vader tries to take Luke on his side, Sidius does the same, they all try to show that the dark side is "good"...
     
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  20. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    only he doesn't know she's FS when he says it (so far as what we see in the film)...not until she resists him.

    even if Kylo Ren believes he's on the right side (and i'm not 100% sure he does), i'm not sure what you mean by feeling his own emotions in her mind (or which scene you're referring to there) and therefore concluding she's on his side. she tries to kill him in the (non-snowy) forest the first time they meet. he can't be so stupid to think she's not his enemy, so his surprise is either really really naive, or it's about something else ~ like the fact the she doesn't fear him more than hate him, which is what Jadore4 suggested above.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 24, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 24, 2016 ---
    definitely. he does everything in that scene to disarm her, from calling her a "guest" to taking off his helmet.
     
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