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"You still want to kill me...." What does Kylo Ren mean?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by FN-3263827, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. Rey24B

    Rey24B Rebel General

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    You know Kylo, you might have had more luck if you'd taken the restraints off of her as well. Especially since she already knows that you can freeze her in place anytime that you want to, and she's trapped onboard your freaking home base. Keeping her strapped to your creepy torture table isn't doing anything to "get her on your side."

    Heck in ROTJ, Sheev very quickly uses The Force to remove Luke's restraints once he enters the throne room, and real life cops will often not have suspects handcuffed during interrogations, to put them at ease.
     
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  2. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    she's not strapped down in the book. i thought that was interesting.

    Kylo Ren makes so many emotional and impulsive mistakes it's almost a comedy if it weren't so tragic.
     
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  3. Rey24B

    Rey24B Rebel General

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    Maybe that was a later decision on JJ's part, to make the scene even creepier and more menacing?
     
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  4. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    probably. someone remarked somewhere else that he personally carries her onto the ship even though he could have handed her to some lackey, so we might infer that he put her in the torture thing himself. it is an interesting contradiction to do this and then try to be friendly about it.
     
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  5. Rey24B

    Rey24B Rebel General

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    He seems to be deliberately making things more persona/intimate with her overall. Compare how he treats her to how he treats Poe in similar situations:

    Poe:

    -Kylo freezes him in place immediately, had two Stormtroopers grab him and drag him onto Kylo's ship.
    -He keeps his mask on during the interrogation scene, and gets right to the point. He's all business.

    Rey:

    -He stalks her for awhile, lets her shoot at him so that he can show off, seems to go out of his way to toy with her (all the while she's clearly terrified of him), then he threatens her with the lightsaber, digs around in her head initially (which he didn't do with Poe). He then knocks her out and carries her to his ship personally "bridal style."

    -He takes his mask off in front of her, gets REALLY close to her (while she's still clearly terrified), changes his tone of voice, and when he starts mind-probing her, he's not even looking for what he's supposed to be at first. Instead, he's just digging around in her most private/intimate thoughts (while creepily commenting on them).

    So yeah, there's clearly a difference in technique here. Also perhaps JJ and co felt that the sense of dread would be increased if it was made clear that se couldn't physically move AT ALL!! Not even like cowering in the corner somewhere. And by extension, it makes her turning the tables on him feel all the more cathartic and satisfying.
     
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i definitely think the contrast between Poe and Rey is effective in the storytelling and in explicating the characters.

    good point about wandering around in her head. i noticed too that the first thing he connects with is her loneliness (likely a projection of his own).

    the fact of her being restrained and still managing to hurt him is so powerful. i agree that it's one of the most satisfying moments in the film!
     
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  7. Jadore4

    Jadore4 Rebel Trooper

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    I was just thinking some of the same -- the comparison to when Ren interrogated Poe vs Rey. Poe, for all his bravado, didn't seem as furious as Rey was. I definitely feel like Ren was trying to impress Rey. I also thought the theory that he was trying to put her at ease interesting, although he had no compunction about "getting right to business" with Poe. His interest in Rey precedes his realizing she is FS and they way he probes her thoughts is super creepy. I think FN above is on to something about him connecting first with her loneliness.

    I wonder why he didn't see her vision from the lightsaber, especially as you'd think that would be fresh in her mind.
     
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i think it has to do with his own emotional state/longing. the things he finds in her immediately are: her loneliness, fear, sleeplessness, the ocean, the island (yearning), and Han Solo. he doesn't like that. so he shakes it off and finally gets down to the business of the map.
     
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  9. Rey24B

    Rey24B Rebel General

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    Would she really be thinking about the vision at that point? Or would she be thinking "OMG, a creepy weirdo in a mask has kidnapped me and tied me to a table, and is now messing around with my mind, get me out of here?"
     
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  10. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    she might actually....this is the dude in her vision, after all.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 24, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 24, 2016 ---
    [​IMG]

    here's a curious moment...cut from the film? she doesn't look like she's even in the torture chair there. no source for the photo unfortunately.
     
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  11. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Wow! That is not in the movie! Good catch! Perhaps the interrogation scene was longer or cut into two separate scenes?
     
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  12. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    maybe they originally filmed the "i had to defend myself from you" dialogue on the ship and then cut it because yeah, the pacing and the blah blah blah was too much.
     
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  13. Rey24B

    Rey24B Rebel General

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    Or the torture chair was a later edition. I kept hearing rumors of her and Kylo having a scene together where she calls him out on the "you're afraid that you'll never be as strong as Darth Vader" thing, even before the movie came out. But one of those reports mentioned her being physically restrained, and her NOT being would make some of Kylo's comments a bit more plausible. And like I said before, many real life cops don't restrain suspects during interrogations, to try and put them at ease. And Sheev had no problem removing Luke's shackles when they met face to face.

    Perhaps it's yet another example of his confidence issues. He doesn't feel completely sure that he CAN break his prisoners if they're not physically restrained?
     
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  14. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    could also be a simple issue of logistics. if she's not in the chair when the cut away from the interrogation to Snoke, it might feel a beat's missing to then cut back to her suddenly being restrained.

    but yeah, moreso i think it's just about the power dynamic ~ his need to exercise control over her. and compensate for his general lack of control over himself.

    and i really like what it says about them when she overpowers him even though she's physically powerless.
     
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  15. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Curiosity killed the image.jpeg
     
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  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    maybe stick that in the meme thread where it belongs.
     
  17. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Relax, it was a legitimate response/joke meant to say that he was just curious and toying with her .
     
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  18. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    sorry, i have a knee-jerk reaction to cruelty and i think those stupid cat pictures are just mean.
     
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  19. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    ...you realize it's photoshopped...right ?
     
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  20. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    you realize that's besides the point?
     
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