Can TROS measure up to Endgame?

Even Anakin's story is of an innocent little boy from nowhere becoming a hero...then the ultimate villain. The imagery of young gifted hero from a backwater desert world as the start of all three trilogies is what makes it interesting. All three, Anakin, Luke and Rey, chose different paths but ultimately will be the ones that save the galaxy. (trying to resist writing "it's poetry" UGH!)

 

I agree. Just pointing out that the midichlorians sort of needlessly muddled it and it would *incredibly* obvious if they had been avoided

 

Why do you say that? What crowd is Marvel drawing that Star Wars isn't? There's a reason they attach MCU trailers to SW movies and SW trailers to MCU movies. (Please note that I am not saying SW is drawing as many people as the MCU, just that it sure looks like that same group of comic-book/sci-fi/fantasy fans to me).

 

In my opinion, the main goal that needs to to be accomplished by Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker is to successfully present a fantastic film that ties up the loose ends of the Sequel Trilogy and the Skywalker Saga as a whole YET by the end of it all, make us keep dreaming for more adventures into the Galaxy Far, Far Away. We loved Star Wars and still do for the escapism quality it has, for it enables us to dive into the GFFA and watch our favourite underdogs fight the tyranny and save the day. It's a story about hope and family, and relationships formed between individuals of different backgrounds and species. That is what Star Wars is all about. I loved every single film since 1977 and yes, they are flawed but every one of them is a piece of visual storytelling that adds value to it all. What TROS needs to do is unique to itself, the challenges it faces can only be solved by its filmmakers. There's no need to compare different franchises because they are different and they have their different set of challenges and solutions but at the end of the day, Star Wars has to define itself.

JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson has worked together throughout the years and even the latest Vanity Fair article, JJ mentions of being inspired to being himself and taking the creative risks that Rian took and this is what we need. We need filmmakers who were just like George Lucas who are visionaries and I have complete faith in Lucasfilm for getting this right.

Once we get a great ending to the Skywalker Saga, let the film speak for itself and the box office money will come in by itself. Star Wars did have its heydays back in the 70s and 80s, but let us not forget, this was the franchise that redefined itself in the 90s and 2000s and is now building towards a new era in the 2010s and going into the 2020s. At 42 years old, Star Wars has the potential to grow and we are far from over. As long as we hold by the spirits of Hope, Optimism and Redemption ( TLJ fans rejoice! ), Star Wars will always be the trip we take to the cinemas to be apart of an experience into the Galaxy Far, Far Away.

 

Star Wars just isn't as popular worldwide as it is domestically. I think The Rise of Skywalker box office will be somewhere between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Could it make more than Endgame domestically? Possibly, who knows. All it would take is a great trailer and some positive word of mouth around the holidays. They will probably market it as the end of the saga and the last Star Wars movies for a few years. I doubt anything will reach Endgame numbers worldwide for a while though.

As far as emotional impact and story, I am much more connected to the Star Wars universe than Marvel, so for me personally, if you give me a Star Wars movie with the emotional equivalent of what we got in Endgame, I may need medical attention. Huge heroic moments followed by a touching main character death? I'm freaking out now just thinking about it. It will be interesting to see how JJ wants to wrap it up. I'm expecting it to be more upbeat, but I'm ready for anything. There could be a surprise no one sees coming.

 

It makes me hopeful that the new era of Star Wars films can capture the Chinese audiences' interests.

 

MCU has done something that has never been done before on this scale. Star Wars was blazing new trails in the 70s and into the 80s and gave birth to the summer blockbuster as we know it now. The first 6 movies tied together quite nicely no matter what you think of the prequels. It filled in the backstory mentioned in the OT. The ST could have continued that story and used the 3 films to overlap the old and new generations but seemed to want to rush us into loving the new characters at the expense of the originals. To me it has squandered an opportunity to have its own MCU type of legacy. I'm a Star Wars fan through and through but Marvel made me care more about a talking raccoon and a shrinking thief than Star Wars has made me care about their new cast of characters. The rushed it and the property has suffered for it. I hope this last one sticks the landing but it's an awful big ask.

 

That's funny coming from you, since you have that username of the DC hero who was replaced on the modern JSA with his successor

 

You forgot Rose

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As for this Marvel vs. Star Wars debate... Marvel are much easier, popcorny movies than the films in the SW franchise. They (Marvel flicks and their ilk) are superhumans (sometimes super-aliens) beating up supervillains for 2-3 hours, mixed with sarcasm-based humor (which is always funny) and near-Michael Bay levels of spectacle. There's nothing wrong with that and these films certainly are popular, but it is rather unfair to compare SW -- i.e. a challenging sosio-mythological project, wrapped in a the trappings of BOTH operatic 40s-50s US youth drama and concept/artsy spaghetti westerns & samurai flicks, and repurposing Biblical motifs & Western folk lore tropes for the purpose of telling morality tales -- with the easily consumable instant-fix of Marvel movies. Of course the latter does well in China, where they don't challenge the audiences any more than they do in the West, while SW movies, which rely on a Western mindset & mythology (which are at best relatable to Japanese culture from a certain angle), do poorly since the Chinese audience in general have very little reason to "get" them; SW speaks a totally different, and very Western (mixed with some Japanese and Biblical) language which is as hard to penetrate for Chinese mass audiences as any non-universal appeal Chinese movie is for Western audiences.

Marvel & Star Wars cannot be fairly compared; they are two VERY different beasts. I dear say however, that the SW we have today will survive through the ages... easily for another 40 years... to be enjoyed by generations of Westerners not even born yet, and continue to make new content long after we're all dead. But the Marvel movies? Will kids born today watch Avenger: Endgame when they're 40? And much less Dr. Strange or Ironman 2 or Thor? (<--- picked at random). By comparison, children and youths discover ANH every week, but how many kids these days watch Dirty Harry, or Smokey and the Bandit, or One Flew Over the Cockoo's Nest?

The value of Star Wars films, ironically (because of the toys thing), lies not in the mass market consumerism, but in the artistic and emotional impact these movies have in their generation and continues to have in generations that follow. So, will RoS measure up to Endgame? Well, it depends on what one means by measuring up... Will it earn as much money? Hm... probably not (due to the much more restricted popcorn appeal). Will it survive Endgame as a cultural phenomenon and as a movie that people watch through the generations? Definitely! Star Wars is art, and these films are in it for the long game.

 

This graph is from 2015. China was even closer to the US in 2018. They could overtake N. America (US/Canada) as the #1 market in 2019.

 

China certainly is quickly becoming a huge market, but @Addi Ras does have a point that the international total is artificially inflated. Non-Chinese studios usually make 30% of the Chinese box office for their movie, which is a far cry from the 50% that studios usually get domestically. This disparity is even more pronounced in Disney's case, where they often get more than 60% of the domestic take, due to the studio's ridiculous power.

 

Y'all talk about Endgame like its your Saturday morning disposable cartoon when it was one of the most emotional rides in history.

In Rotten Tomatoes it has a 94% (Critics) and a 90% (Audience). It has a 78 in Metacritic, an A+ Cinemascore and it is placed #18 in Imdb's "Top Rated Movies".

Is no average blockbuster. That's The Dark Knight numbers.

We cried for Han, who we knew for 3 movies and a 30 year hiatus, now imagine how many people cried for /Spoiler/ or /Spoiler/ who were in like 8-10 movies.

TRoS won't even be the 2nd biggest movie of the year in the States and worldwide (The Lion King). And it will fight for the 3rd place worldwide with Frozen 2 and Toy Story 4.

That's sad because The Force Awakens still is the biggest movie in the US (sans inflation) and one of the five "2 billion movies". Something went wrong.

Quality is another thing. I'm confident JJ will make a great movie. But even if you didn't like it, stop pretending Endgame wasn't good.

 

I think it's hard to compare these two franchises. Marvel has experienced such success in the last ten years and the massive financial success of the last two films is a very unique and rare event. Will TROS do well at the box office? Yes, I think it will . Last film of the saga and sheer curiosity from the casual audience. Also, it's the holiday season, it will definitely draw in a crowd made of fans spanning across generations. HOW successful remains to be seen. The narrative and word of mouth via social media will be a critical factor that determines its success. TFA was a unique event when SW was being reintroduced to the public and, of course, it made the 2B Club. I don't necessarily think TROS will do that even if it's a good movie. I think Endgame is just another unique phenomenon and has been consistently cranking out films (MARVEL, that is) that the audience generally enjoys whereas TLJ has caused a lot of controversy within the fandom. This resulted in less revenue at the box office even though 1.3 B isn't shabby whatsoever in terms of profits.

 

I agree with 99% of this, but to say there isn't a deep, dramatic, or operatic through-line in the MCU isn't accurate IMO. Tony's entire relationship with his father shapes him, and in turn his relationship with a young Peter Parker, and this all culminates in Endgame. Contrast that with Thanos' treatment of his own daughters which becomes the crux of Infinity War and a very big part of Endgame.

There's also the fact that Star War seemingly wants to break it's own mythic chains. We see that in the Anthology movies; we find it in how they treat the ST (for better or for worse); we see parts of it all the way down to the animated shows. Star Wars doesn't want to be a mythic story about the forces of good and evil, or about chosen ones and stuff like that anymore. They want to be like Marvel, with a shared universe and relatable characters* and overall positivity. While I do think Star Wars will lose something that makes it special trying to copy the MCU, I also believe it's one of the few franchises to be able to. It just needs more...vision...than what it seems to have now.


*This is not to say that Star Wars has never had relatable characters. Luke Skywalker has always had a relatable side to him. But with a more diverse audience than before, what relatable means has changed.

We still watch and appreciate Christopher Reeves' Superman movies. We still have the old Adam West Batman stories in our cultural consciousness. So maybe not every MCU film, but the MCU as a whole will definitely survive the next 40 years, and I think Endgame will specifically.
It'll be different, but they'll discover it because the kids today that have grown up with the MCU will want to share that with their own children some day.

 

@FastestKnight, there is something like personal preference and liking. Some liked Endgame, other disliked it. So, they can see it how they personally feel about it.

That's a point of view. I wasn't emotional grabbed. Maybe because I'm not the biggest Marvel fan and haven't watched all movies leadig up to Endgame. But IMO this movie had to much pathos going on to get really emotionally involved.

TROS will be in the Top 3. I'm sure about that. But numbers don't mean anything anyways.

Again, that's a point of view. I think Endgame wasn't that good. I rated it with 2,5 stars (of 5) on Letterboxd and even that was permissive. Opinions can differ, but I didn't like Endgame. It was way too long and had unecessary fillers, the score was medicore etc. I don't want TROS to be like Endgame, I want better.

 

I love Star Wars, but I don't agree it is that deep, or some form of high art. Star Wars is not the Sistine Chapel, and it wasn't created with that purpose, I believe. It was meant to be a fun ride filled with optimism, a modern myth, a fairy tale. The movies certainly hint at deeper themes, but I think the franchise is first and foremost several hours of spectacle and entertainment, much like the MCU, and gets much of its deeper meaning from what we as viewers and fans project onto it, and have been projecting onto it for the last 40+ years. When I watch the Star Wars films I'm not watching a set of movies, I'm hoping to relive moments of my childhood, to get that feeling of butterflies in my stomach. So, like most here I'm incredibly biased, and on an emotional level I really want to agree that Star Wars is a challenging sosio-mythological project, and the MCU an easily consumable instant-fix, but I think if you strip away 40+ years of emotional projection, and childhood memories, Star Wars and the MCU really aren't as different as all that. The real difference is in how we approach movies like Endgame, and TROS through our own personal history with these franchises, and what we expect from them.

 

Of course, like I said, if you didn't like it is obviously ok. The thing is that, on a general level, the movie was very well received. So when the poster asked whether TRoS can measure up to Endgame, I don't think we should consider only our own opinions and the box office, but also the critics and audiences reactions.

Is perfectly fine if we love TRoS and the rest of the world doesn't, but wouldn't it be cooler if they did too? That's why it's important to speak on a general level apart from a personal one.

And I agree on the numbers stuff. Hopefully it will be second.