Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

You are assuming Plagueis didn't want Palpatine to murder him. To cheat death would be complete new and unprecedented (as far as characters in the main saga goes)...there's no way to tell what would happen, but I have always felt that Plagueis foresaw Anakin "The Chosen One" becoming Vader, and knew it was time for his final test - could he cheat death. He gave Palpatine the opportunity, and while pretending to be sleeping, he was secretly preparing his mind and his body for the next journey he was about to take.

 

Big Boi Saber? Outcast approves.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that Ren's weapon is more powerful than a Jedi light saber.

Elegant and civilized? No. Raw and unstable.

 

Back to the JJ Abrams, Pablo Hidalgo and canon discussion...

Earlier in this thread i suggested that JJ may have influenced the decision to decanonise the eu and in Particular the Plagueis novel to which someone replied that he was not even on board when the canon decisions were made to which i showed that he was on board at least a year before.
Also, people have suggested that Pablo Hidalgo dictates story etc to JJ.
In a new interview with i09 JJ talks about development and mentions the canon in a way that suggest that him and Kasdan did indeed have a big influence on the decanonisation of the eu as it was stifling them.
http://io9.com/j-j-abrams-told-us-t...&utm_source=io9_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

 

Jedi Knight Luke defeated Vader in a duel. With limited training Luke was defeated by Vader in a duel.
Vader blindsided Sidious. No duel took place.
Sidious blindsided Plagueis. No duel took place.
Clone troopers blindsided the Jedi they killed. No duel took place.

 

Its not that I don't want Snoke to be Plagueis, 6 months ago I was 100% for it, but the more I read what JJ has said about not really touching or changing anything and stuff and how they want to move forward, I just don't know. Coupled with the fact it will one way or another change Palpatines mysterious speech to Anakin, I dunno. plus I don't think JJ wants to cover Midi-Chlorins again.

I just get the feeling this Dark Side user is Ancient, he doesn't follow Sith rules (Remember the Sith were an ideaology much like the Jedi). Kylo is being trained differently using ancient relics, the mask the Saber.

I just feel Snoke needs to be bigger thats all.

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Luke was far from a fully fledged Jedi Knight a couple years Jedi training versus nearly a lifetime of training both dark and lightside compared to Vader?

Sidious was over confident, his judgement was defeated

and like I said the Wise was outwitted

Clone Troppers won the numbers game

Either way each got the best of their opponents, mainly by exploiting weaknesses.

 

Palpatine supposedly had the Muun's body, cremated. And if that remains true, then it would take a VERY long time for his will to rejuvenate the torched matter. All that we have to go by is the Plagueis Novel and in that, he learned how to halt the aging process and regrow the ruined flesh on his face and neck. Just prior to his demise he mused that with his knowledge, both he and Sidious would prolong each others lives indefinitely. As long as they didn't kill each other first. But the sweetest part of the story? Plagueis kept that secret from Palpatine.

 

This is stepping into the (Are they really gonna explain all this) complicated territory. All these theories are quite nice and would all make sense, like I said if it is Plagueis would be nice to have a satisfying quick explanation, to please both fans and public alike.

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\it might be more powerful but I think Kylo wants Anakins saber both as birthright and possibly because he doesn't have his own xD

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I have not read the Novel, had it of still been Cannon I would have, sounds like an interesting read with alot of great ideas.

 

He screwed himself in the end .

 

Can somebody list the Plagueis references from Tarkin novel.
The Force can strike back is one right?
What is the source for the "when Plagueis died Palpatine sensed a disturbance" kind of quote and what is the correct quote?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=775656

-Plagueis really is Sidious' master, he's not something Sidious made up just to dupe Anakin.
-Sidious was still Plagueis' apprentice several years after he was appointed as Naboo senator. It is not clear if Plagueis lives until the events of TPM as is the case in DP novel.
-Plaguies once remarked that "the Force can strike back". Sidious ultimate goal is to make certain that the Force could not strike back.
-Related to the point above, Sidious seeks to use the power of the dark side to reshape reality itself, to fashion his own universe. He remarked that he wants influence of the ultimate sort, not just mere immortality like Plagueis.
-Plagueis' species is not mentioned.
-Plagueis' end is not elaborated. Sidious only remarked that Plagueis could not foreseen his apprentice becoming an Emperor.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 9, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 9, 2015 ---

Heres another forum post which is interesting

http://www.eucantina.net/archives/18274

 

I know in a discussion about official SW saga, it would be counterproductive to bring in the EU..But f*ck it! Until otherwise stated, Darth Plagueis is the official backstory(with some minor edits and tweaks)

At the end of CH 29, Plagueis learns of the boy conceived of the force. He demands the child be brought to him, in an angry yet fearful tone. When he fails in capturing the child, he says "Are we undone?"
It seems he was fully a believer in Anakin's mission and that it would be completed.

It would make sense that Plagueis allowed Sidious to "kill him" once he realized his(Sidious) demise would be met. Then after the "balance" was brought and the Chosen One was dead, he would feel safe to start something new.

That Chapter is also titled "The Force Strikes Back"...Just like the comment made in Tarkin(a canon novel)

 

That sounds oddly short-sighted for Sid. You would think mastering immortality/invulnerability would be the fist step, and then power over the entire universe. Strength before power, am I right?

 

From TARKIN:
"Such perilous machinations required two Sith, one to serve as bait for the dark side, the other to be the vessel. Success would grant them the power to harness the full powers of the dark side, and allow them to rule for ten thousand years."

***

"Darth Plagueis had once remarked that “the Force can strike back.” …Attacks like the one directed against Tarkin’s moon base and discoveries like the one on Murkhana were distractions to his ultimate goal of making certain that the Force could not strike back…”

***
"And he would not allow himself to be sidetracked from his goal of unlocking the secrets many of the Sith Masters before him had sought: the means to harness the powers of the dark side to reshape reality itself; in effect, to fashion a universe of his own creation. Not mere immortality of the sort Plagueis had lusted after, but influence of the ultimate sort."

EDIT:
Anyone else ever listen to the Darth Plagueis audio-book?
The dude kinda sounds like Serkis when he does the Plagueis voice.

 

I think people have a very tough time unlearning what they have learned regarding Plagueis.
The only 'facts' are:

Plagueis was Sidious' master.
Sidious thought he had killed Plagueis.

Open to discussion:

Plagueis could save others from death.
Plagueis could create life.

From that we can speculate that:

Plagueis learned how to save himself but didn't tell Sidious.
Plagueis created Anakin Skywalker.

We need to forget the novel - how Sidious supposedly killed his master, for instance.

So what do we know about Snoke (Potentially being a Muun aside)?
Well, it appears he resides in the outer rim - but has witnessed the galactic events that have transpired. He is scarred and deformed. Vulnerable. He has created the KOR (probably) and taken control of the remnants of the Empire and thus formed the FO. He turned Kylo Ren to the Dark Side and so likely has a knowledge of the young Ren's parents/family. He is a powerful Dark Sider which suggests he had access to Dark Side knowledge via the Sith. He has overseen the construction of the Star Killer base.

If Plagueis is indeed Snoke then I would speculate that his story was this:

Palpatine fried him or attempted to have him assassinated in a dark corner of the galaxy. He believed Plagueis was killed. He survived the attack however, unbeknownst to Palpatine, as he had learned how to 'cheat death'. This isn't to say he is immortal but rather the Dark Side kept him alive despite the 'odds being against him'. We don't need to talk midichlorians. Just that the Dark Side sustained him. This is important as it's the flip side to Jedi spiritual immortality. The Dark Side cannot enable that - but rather an unnatural long life that is more a deal with the devil - resulting in a physical manifestation of this 'cancerous pact' (Zombie like).

Badly injured, scarred and deformed, Plagueis slopes off into the outer reaches of space - plotting his revenge vs Palpatine and fulfilling his plan to destroy the Jedi.
He attracts a number of Force sensitives to his cause by passing on his Dark Side wisdom (something unavailable to many since the rule of 2) and thus creates the KOR.

Plagueis watches as his creation, Darth Vader, destroys Palpatine 'for him' and the Empire crumbles. Sensing that it is his time he draws the Imperials to him and reveals how they could a) create a weapon greater than the Death Star and b) Perhaps shows off his ability to save others from death. He is viewed as the saviour of the Empire.

After many years of building up the FO, Plagueis sees that in order to achieve his goals he must destroy Luke Skywalker - totally. Not just physically, but his legacy as well. And he must separate Luke from the Resistance. So knowing he cannot defeat Luke himself he turns kidnaps Kylo (Han and Leia's son) and turns him to the Dark Side - brainwashing the boy into thinking he shares the destiny of Darth Vader - to destroy the Jedi and for Plagueis to rule the galaxy with the Dark Side. I'd imagine Plagueis could use his 'I created Vader' and 'death cheating' tricks to make Kylo believe he is some kind of God-like figure too.

This drives Luke apart from Han & Leia, it reverses Luke's greatest achievement (turning Vader back to the light - Kylo is Vader 2.0) and it provides Plagueis with a being strong enough, with some help, to defeat Luke. Coupled with his anti-Luke propaganda, this spells the end for Luke...for a time. Furthermore, Plagueis is learning from Palpatines error in not dealing with the Jedi after he became Emperor.

The threat is new. It's a different challenge for the new heroes. But at the heart of this is Plagueis' curse upon the Skywalkers. On a metaphorical level his unnatural creation of them has 'plagued' their bloodline and not until Plagueis is destroyed can the Skywalkers and the galaxy have peace.

 

This is quite interesting and great to see some Canon backstory about Palpatine. Not bashing Plagueis but it seems, Palpatines plans were grander, whatever Plagueis was doing in Palpatines mind wasn't worth his time and was maybe part of the reason he didn't need Plagueis anyone, hence the "murder"

"If" Snoke isn't Plagueis could he be a being or Dark Side uber (remember his filming alias) who was disturbed or damaged by Sidious's/Vaders meddling in the Dark side, them trying to Conquer it? Has he travelled far to be in this Galaxy and by the time he arrives only Luke is the last player in the Jedi/Sith saga? Remember Kylo isn't a Sith at all, not an enforcer, inquisitor he doesn't follow that path but he knows of that path. With Luke being legend and some stuff JJ said about how Finn and other were brought up thinking Luke was the enemy, does everyone who was involved share the same view?

What is the Awakening??? *Insert X-Files music*

 

Was going to post that the other day. Very very similar.
Not to say Serkis' voice was based off that -but it appears that this kind of voice fits Plagueis' character.

#PLAGUEISCONFIRMATION

 

I listened to the audiobook just before the canon wipe. I loved it. The narrator really enhanced the mood. But yeah, when I hear the way Serkis voices Snoke it sure does remind me of the way Plagueis' speech is portrayed in the Novel.

 

Quoted.For.Truth.


If I could [LIKE] this ten thousand times, I would.

 

It also helps tie up the loose end that is Anakins father from TPM. This helps make the whole Episode structure a connected SAGA