Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

Twitter hope is a fragile thing.

 

Thank You! This discussion really starts to hurt..

 

Based on my deep appreciation and respect for George Lucas as the creator of Star Wars, I would gladly settle for one criteria with regard to Snoke:

• Give us something which could, by popular consensus, come close to, equal, or surpass what George Lucas already created in Darth Plagueis.

I think, if Disney did go with the Plagueis option, it could be a wonderful gesture, something tantamount to an expression of respect to George Lucas, who already did all the hard work and provided this compelling character with the means, the motivations, and the backstory which could give Snoke the depth and breadth he needs to be a convincing and worthy supervillain at this point in the saga.

If Disney is consciously avoiding Plagueis simply because it was something George Lucas created and/or it was considered too strong a reference to the Prequel Trilogy, that would be poor reasoning.

As I said, Snoke could be "new" as of The Force Awakens. Maybe "Snoke" is simply his latest name/persona. If so, Snoke could also reveal a rich, if not mind-blowing past within a couple of lines of dialogue.

Here's a quick little scene I whipped up just as an example of Snoke revealing some of his backstory and even the Skywalker lineage from a newish perspective that can still tie everything together saga-wise:

INT. SNOKE'S THRONE ROOM - NIGHT.

Snoke: Master Skywalker, you wish to know something.

Luke: The truth. I know you were once Darth Plagueis.

Snoke: Ah, yes. Yes.... That was once my name. But I have gone by many names... Bane... Binks... Plagueis... among others. Names like masks. But you: you may call me "grandfather."

Luke: Eventually the mask comes off.

Snoke: Is that why you're here now? You truly wish to see? Come, then, Jedi. I will show you.

Snoke waves a hand: he and Luke appear on a fiery world with ancient ruins. They stand at the entrance of an old Sith temple. A Sith ritual is underway inside.

Snoke: Welcome home, son of Skywalker. Bear witness to your father's creation.

Shmi Skywalker is sound asleep, garbed in red, supine on a stone slab and surrounded by chanting Sith priests. A Younger Snoke appears above the proceedings in ceremonial Sith garb, wielding and whirling energy from a great red crystal behind him. The energy encircles the temple and spirals down to surround Shmi.

Younger Snoke: Arise, my son. Rise to me! Rise!

Shmi levitates above the slab, a whirlpool of energy engulfing her. The chanting grows louder. Younger Snoke releases a wave of energy. Shmi drops to the slab, mumbles in her sleep. The chanting stops.

Snoke and Luke are back in Snoke's Throne Room.

Snoke: There's more, to be sure. Oh, so much more. But you realize it, now: that all has transpired according to my plan.

Luke: To rule over life and death.

Snoke (smiling): The only power worth pursuit.

Luke: Everything must find its end.

Snoke (serious): Of course, even you, Jedi.

Snoke hurls an energy wave at Luke, but Luke has disappeared into thin air. Snoke's energy wave crushes a pillar behind where Luke was standing. Snoke looks around nervously, mystified. Snoke darts toward the exit. The sound of a lightsaber igniting echoes in the chamber. Snoke runs, sealing the exit behind him.​

Such a scene could even segue to other scenes I proposed (linked below in order of their progression):

• here
• and then here

Just one of a million ways this can be worked out.

JediMasterRobert

 

By Plagueis as a Snoke, Disney has on its table free to take this:


1. Absolutely plausible character in Star Wars universe, with firm background in Star wars mythology, with the potential that is in a class (if not greater) than main villain from previous films-Palpatine. And dont we forget, Star Wars movie worths as much as its main villain worths( its an epic battle of good and evil).

2.One in the same time connects entire Star Wars saga into unbreakable opus, and this rises value of entire saga, which is now property of Disney.

3. The last trilogy by Snoke being Plagues actually becomes pivotal trilogy, most important trilogy of them all, as in it a source of all evil that was in the root of all events in the past is here and now resolved. So, instead of project of serie of 3 action films with Star Wars signature but separated from previous films, Disney gets project of serie of 3 action films as a part of most importan trilogy in the history of Star Wars, in which a resolution of all events in Star wars saga comes to agenda .This surely again rises value( revenues) of the films.

4. Bonus! Disney retains rock solid , decades old, multimillion Star Wars fandom community, and gets new one .Its impossible to retain old and rise new fans if one destroys connection between old and new films.

......

Or they can choose any other character whatever , one that will always and in any combination , compared to Plagueis,be in a class of Mickey Mouse.

( in fact Mickey is ok, more precise comparison will be a self destruction device, Trojan horse, or something).

 

Agreed, SEND THE MAIL lol

 

Hmm, your argument, while assuming a great deal about George Lucas' motives(seriously), at least is just that, an argument for your beliefs on the matter. Oddly no silly statements about how there is no other possible villain, especially of the hyperbolic variety.

There we go, whew, I thought you were about to break the mold for a second there.

I also like how you imply that the decades old, millions strong community of Star Wars fans will up and desert the franchise if he turns out to be someone else. The more likely answer if Snoke turns out to be someone else is that a very small and narrow minded portion of the fan base will be upset, but will write articles in such a way as to say they are speaking for the entire SW fan community(kinda like what you just did there ). What would happen instead is that as long as the story is well told, the VAST majority of Star Wars fans, both new and old, will continue to be fans and enjoy the movies, oblivious to the rantings of the minority who hates them, maybe mildly annoyed by their rants at best. Disney will continue to count their money, entirely disinterested in such arguments.

While I see your concerns, I don't fully agree with them, but at least they sound more reasonable and less hyperbolic than some of the other statements in this thread. I wouldn't say that they leave holes just yet however, like I said, see what the screenwriters come up with and then judge the results for yourself.

As for your demands for others to come up with a character who fills the gap, that isn't really the job of us here on the forums, that's the job of the screen writers. Also, Like @Revanite said, the screen writers don't have to address every single point you mentioned for the story to make sense, nor will they be worried about those kind of minute details while writing to begin with. I guarantee that JJ and Kasdan didn't obsess over all the little details that we fans have obsessed over while writing their script for TFA or laying the foundation for the following films.

As for your love of the PT, that is understandable. While I think the films themselves are very poor, I think their story still works fine on paper, therefore I have no problems with whether they are referenced. That being said, I don't think there is any way that these films can't be tied to the PT in various ways anyhow, especially considering their connection to Vader and the Skywalker family, all of which starts in the PT, not to mention the rise of the Empire and so on.

There we go, a nice open minded response.

As I've said previously, I have no issues with Snoke being Plagueis at this point, I even think it may indeed be the best story possibility of what I've heard argued. But if he turns out to be someone different, as long as it is well told, I, along with the VAST majority of the Star Wars fan base will continue to enjoy these films. No matter what story choices they make in these films, Disney is going to upset small portions of the fan base, but they won't be losing any sleep over it.

I bet there is probably an equally passionate group online that would hate Plagueis reveal just because of their hatred of the PT, Disney isn't worried about them either.

 

This is a good way of thinking but it's too "magicy" for me as it reminds me of something from Game of Thrones or something that could fit in more of Dungeons and Dragons rather than "Sci-Fi."

 

Darth Maul's new magic legs ruined that argument a long, long time ago, on a Dathomir altar, in a newly formed junk yard.

 

How about the original Houdini? Obi wan himself.


And who can forget these guys?



And does lightning out of the fingers count as magic?




But sure, I guess there were no moments that popped the 'magical' cherry before Maul's new legs

 

Of course balance in the Force was not fulfilled.

The Plagueis experiments with life, his acummulated immense power has shifted the balance of the force to the Dark side in the first place. He even have created Skywalker blodline and they to are prone to drift on a Dark side, despite the will of the Force been somewhat different than Plagueis thought.

His demise in new trilogy will bring the balance back

Now ...let us pray together...

 

I think it's just that the force has gone out of balance again.

 

There was no balancing of the force in episode VI, because the Sith have not been anihillated .....Sith No One Knew Existed- SNOKE ,aka Plagueis.

Occam's razor.

 

I disagree. If the Force wasn't balanced then the whole PT story is negated. Anakin Skywalker's story is negated.
The Sith don't cause imbalance just for calling themselves Sith. Heck, if Snoke is Plagueis then he is no longer a Sith anyway. He is something else.

Now, we know that Snoke has been badly deformed. Likely severely injured. We know he is vulnerable. And we know he has had to re-emerge ill-prepared to face Luke. Therefore, my view is that Snoke didn't impact upon the balance because he wasn't doing anything around the time balance was restored because he was just surviving. He wasn't spreading evil everywhere - and that is how the Sith disrupt the balance.

Look at it this way - we know the Sith existed unbeknownst to the Jedi for a thousand years prior to TPM. We know the balance only really starts to slip during the events of the PT and is completely disrupted in ROTS. Therefore we know that the Force doesn't just go out of balance because the Sith exist. It's only when they actively spread evil across the galaxy (cause wars, oppress people, murder etc).

Therefore, I believe Anakin did bring balance. I don't think they have changed that nor will. It would go against Lucas' canon and negate the PT. What I think happened was Anakin brought balance, the galaxy had the perfect opportunity for lasting peace but after 15 years or so Snoke and the FO rise and spread evil (or despair as Lor San Tekka puts it) everywhere once again. Thus the Force goes out of balance again.

 

Thanks, AstromechRecords.

I would have to disagree on the genre part, as, since the beginning, I've known Star Wars to be far more mystical mythical epic operatic space fantasy than hardcore realistic Star Trek style science fiction.

JediMasterRobert

 

"A prophecy that misread could have been "

Always wandered why Lucas made this. In same Movie where Plagueis introduced was.Riddle.

 

Because they doubted Anakin. They didn't trust him. So they thought the prophesy could be wrong. They thought it was wrong after rots but then saw it was right and not misread in ROTJ.

 

We should ask ourselves again what was the main reason Lucas was so reluctant making sequel trilogy?

It is, I repeat, the problem of main villain.

Every Star Wars movie, if one pretends to be called Star Wars movie, is an epic struggle of good and evil. Its a space opera of epic proportions, and the struggle of good end evil must be equally epic.So once you have a villain of epic proportions dead (. Sidious, episode VI) here is the balance.

What have we discovered by this?

Even a try to make reasonably plausible sequel trilogy brings destruction of idea that episode VI has brought balance in the Force, as new trilogy, by definition of Star Wars mythology MUST introduce another villain of epic proportions.

However, here I deeply believe that genius of Lucas has found a way to bypass this immense problem, by introduction of Plagueis the Wise and little doubt about Anakins's prophecy in the last film of prequel trilogy.. If it was decided later to stay only of just VI films, it will be ok, balance brought. If one decides one day there will be sequel trilogy, a hidden gem in episode III, Plagueis, becomes Epic villain that becomes main reason why there was no balance in episode VI, and one gives reason for fight for the balance to be continued.

There was no balancing of the force in episode VI, because the Sith have not been anihillated ..because there was a...Sith No One Knew Existed ( in short, SNOKE)

The Anakin personal?, Well actually it is the Skywalkers bloodline that will bring the balance to the Force, not Anakin only himself. It is already a fact, because Anakin has turned back on Light side only by power and persistance of his son, also a Skywalker, Luke.

 

I found the related video announcement on the "Disneyland Experience" YouTube channel:

If you skip to the 4 minute mark, you can read see the scroll in its entirety.

The crawl is brief and is worded in such a way that makes it generically relevant to both Luke Skywalker, Leia, Han, etc. from the Original Trilogy as well as Rey, Luke, Finn, etc. from the Sequel Trilogy.

Beyond that:

Balance was brought to the Force as of Return of the Jedi, and the prophecy was fulfilled.

What the prophecy did not say was "eternal balance" or "forever and ever."

Which means the Force can always be perturbed again and sent into a state of imbalance.

There are many ways to think of this balance / imbalance aspect of the Force. For example, a still clear body of water is calm and perfectly reflective until a stone skips across its surface or someone dives in.

Then we have ripples, bubbles, agitation, splattering, and sometimes even whirlpools and tidal waves under the right circumstances.

But, over time, such things could possibly be brought back into balance, either through intervening entities, such as the Jedi, or simply by waiting for things to settle naturally over a much longer period.

After Return of the Jedi, there was a lull in the Force, a brief period of peace and clarity due to the riddance of the major Dark Side players: Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine.

As the entity we only presently know as Snoke was revealed and brought back into galactic affairs, this, along with the turning of Ben Solo, the Knights of Ren, and the rise of the First Order enabled there to be a new period of imbalance.

This is why Luke Skywalker was elevated to such of chief importance as of The Force Awakens, becoming the thing everyone sought, as he is the one most experienced and knowledgeable in the ways of the Force. He, with Rey, and possibly others, can work together to help restore the balance.

If there is any possibility that Snoke is (or is comparable to) Plagueis, then he could represent an unprecedented challenge -- a real plague -- to the Force: an antagonist, if truly bent on immortality, who stands to be a perpetual agitator of the Force, keeping things permanently imbalanced such that peace and clarity could never exist as they once did in the galaxy.

So, in drawing from this particular possibility (which, as I said before, can be one of millions), Snoke could be that "next-level" supervillain: whereas Palpatine sought to control the galaxy, "Snoke (as, or simply comparable to Plagueis) could likely have his eye on the ultimate prize -- to be the master of the Force itself, subjugating it, and all of life.

JediMasterRobert

 

My answer above responds to this though @McDiarmid

Would George Lucas wish to negate the entire story of his PT? No.
And like I say, if Snoke is inactive and not spreading evil, then like the Sith before they reveal themselves in TPM, he won't be impacting upon the balance.
It's just a case of the balance being eroded again, this time by the FO and KoR.