Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

Why? Because he's a prequel era character?

 

Don't waste another minute on prayer. Embrace Plagueis - the heart and soul of the Star Wars saga.

 

no, because he's a character that i have zero interest in. The book character was nothing more than "meh" imo. When i say go make stand alones, i say that so actual fans of Plagueis can get their plagueis fix without ruining the saga.

 

He obviously created Anakin. He has cheated death and screwed Sidious over. He's now the Supreme Leader of the FO.

He's a big feckin' deal!

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2016 ---

Not to mention that he ties in all 9 films and his demise will be the conclusion of this wonderful saga!

Technically, without Plagueis, there would be no Star Wars.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2016 ---

Unless Snoke is Mace Windu, Boba Fett or Jar Jar...

 

@Charlie07

You said:

"So when they chucked out all the old stuff, going through all the old EU content, you don't think there was even a discussion about why they were throwing out the canon?"

I replied:

You need to answer this.
Are you saying that they went through all the previous canon books they de-canonised and came up with reasons why they should be decanonised other than the idea of having a pre-2014 clean slate?

That doesn't make sense.
Pablo originally said that the DP novel got caught up in the blanket de-canonisation. He has now let slip that the backstory didn't work for Lucas.

 

Yes, I think they went through the vast majority of stories that majorly effected the actual canon timeline from the movies as they were cleaning out the EU.

Example:after Thrawn was decanonised Filoni said this

Thrawn was decanonised in the clean slate, yet they discussed his importance to canon and how to bring him back. This was discussed, yet still thrown out.

I believe Plagueis was very similar, they discussed his importance to the PT, during the clean slate period they discussed how george didn't like the backstory any more and that is it.

That is why i think Plagueis is nothing more than a character for stand alone movies. They are rebooting the whole story of characters like Thrawn. I don't want more retconning of the Saga series just to fit a square peg in a round hole.

 

Rofl.

 

So you're saying they discussed Plagueis' relevance?
So why did the backstory to his novel cause issues for Lucas? And why wasn't his species mentioned in Tarkin? What species was it that Luceno was asked to leave out?

And again, when Lucas handed over the ST to Disney, who was his bad guy? Because JJ and co. didn't have one until much later on. When they went in, JJ was toying with a female baddie amongst other ideas. The design of Snoke wasn't cemented until weeks before the final version of the film.

So who was Lucas' villain?

 

Shaitan goes for the throat!

 

I suggest that they possibly discussed Plagueis during the clean slate. Just like they did with Thrawn.

Re lucas: issues. I obviously have no clue as to the very specific issues Lucas had with the backstory. Maybe we should email him?

Re Species: if lucas had major issues with the backstory, i imagine the whole idea of "plagueis" is about as concrete as fluffy pillows. How can you have a solid idea for a character if the whole backstory is considered to be garbage?

JJ had issues because Arndt supposedly couldn't finish a script quick enough. So they restarted.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Disney-Changed-Star-Wars-Writers-Last-Minute-71356.html

http://uproxx.com/movies/michael-arndt-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

There was no defined real villain. Lucas was working with Arndt, they didn't finalise anything, JJ and Kasdan went back, erased the whiteboard and did their own stuff.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2016 ---

I also love how you leave out WHY JJ thought about a female snoke.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/13-story-ideas-that-were-dropped-from-star-wars-the-fo-1749962882

It was purely for looks, being female and changing back to male had nothing to do with the actual character story. He just didn't want a palpatine clone at that stage.

 

Arndt got a writing credit for TFA, so they obviously didn`t "erase the whiteboard".
When he was doing the screenplay, he couldn`t figure out a way to write a new story without retconning the EU, which at the time, was still considered canon. Hence the clean slate. Pablo`s tweet can be seen as evidence that Arndt wanted to use Plagueis as the main villain, but since he was killed in the novel, he didn`t know how to do it.

When JJ and Kasdan came in, Lucasfilm decided to de-canonize the EU. That gave them complete creative freedom.
They could now use Plagueis without having to worry about his backstory and since JJ loves to surprise his audiences, they decided to change his species and maybe even at one point debated making him female, although they would quickly realize that that would contradict the opera house scene.

I`d also like to bring this up again:

It is obvious to me that JJ and Kasdan know who he is talking about. JJ is super nervous.
Also, he didn`t say that Plagueis is not Snoke. He said that he will not be mentioned in TFA, which he wasn`t.
I also recently realized that Daisy Ridley actually said "Oh, is that S-".

 

They cast arndt's work aside. JJ has spoken numerous times of walking around with Kasdan trying to come up with the story. Giving him a writing credit was nothing more than a nice gesture.

Plagueis is still dead in the canon,

This is Plagueis' backstory, in official canon.

It didn't give them complete freedom, they would have to retcon established plagueis canon.


Again, regarding snoke character changes. You are adding additional information that is not there. JJ suggested a female snoke, according to official material, because they didn't want a palpatine clone at that time. It was solely about the look of the character. There is no suggestion of character design changed to fit the story, only the look they had for the character. Where can you point to that they reverted back to a male snoke because of the opera scene?


I'd also like to bring this up, if you are going to read into things from a video.

People went crazy after this video, proclaiming OMG IT'S THE PLAGUEIS STAFF!!! OMG PLAGUEIS CONFIRMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

Daisy in a later interview

http://overmental.com/content/star-...s-rey-is-not-using-darth-plagueis-staff-42434

reading into body language and "hints" doesn't mean anything

 

You don't get a writing credit unless you had a big influence on the story.
It's true that they probably changed numerous things, for example the role of Luke, who initially had a larger part:

However, this does not mean they threw all of Arndt's ideas out of the window.
You used this quote in one of your previous posts:

JJ and Kasdan took these outlines and worked with them, walked around together and discussed how they could incorporate them into a screenplay they were both happy with.

This doesn't confirm his death.
Remember, Obi-Wan said this to Luke in A New Hope:

The part you're referring to here was pure speculation on my part.
All I said is that the discussions they had about the look of the character do not proof the Plagueis theory wrong.
We know that JJ's movies are all about twists and surprises. He calls it "the mystery box".

The video is very interesting. People are claiming that she was just confused and didn't know what to say, because she didn't know the character, but this is wrong.
Plagueis was mentioned at SDCC and she did not seem surprised then.
My guess is that she didn't know about the importance of Plagueis and that's why she nearly revealed him at the panel. After Comic Con, they sat down with her and told her that there'll be a huge twist.
When the name was brought up again by Tiffany Smith, she didn't know how to react and thus, just said nothing.

I believe her, the staff is not Plagueis'. But it doesn't have to be for the theory to work.

 

Like she said, "everybody wants it to be Darth Plagueis' staff..."

The fans have spoken and the cast and crew are all aware of it! Snoke is Plagueis confirmed!*




*but the staff is just a staff

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2016 ---

Unless it was buried on Jakku with Plagueis.....before his resurrection

Discuss...

 

That does not mean his work wasn't cast aside.

They took the absolute bare bones ideas from arndt's version and gave him a writers credit because of it. Just like Ant-man, Edgar wright received credit whilst they completely rewrote his version.

Kasdan said it plainly

They didn't have anything! Period.

I'm sorry but i completely disagree with this point. As Obi-wan clearly states in ROTJ, when he said vader was dead, he mean the dark side killed the anakin he knew. Sidious in the opera scene is mocking Plagueis because he was a fool. He put so much effort into stopping death in other people and teaching his apprentice, but couldn't stop the apprentice killing him.

Completely different.

The mystery box is about questions... JJ Abrams: "Who the hell is ben kenobi?...mystery box"

When JJ talks about "twists and surprises" he is talking about story "twists and surprises" , he highlights how jaws is not about sharks but that scene with brody and a mans life, yet we all think its about the sharks.

This again is completely different to toying with Snoke's character design.

Purely character design driven, not story twists and surprise driven.

My point wasn't solely about the staff, its more about reading into things that aren't really there. Everyone read into Daisy's body language, just look at Tiffany's reaction, and then created speculation around that. That is the same thing people are doing with the plagueis question on the panel. Daisy's reaction is a perfect example of not reading into things too much and trying to fill gaps with preconcieved ideas.

Trust me, I went through this stuff defending MSW regarding the luke screen time spoiler. People read way too much into vague body language and nothing answers then lose their blast when the spoiler is confirmed to be accurate.

 

I'd still like to know who people think Lucas had as the villain.
I mean, are you suggesting that within his treatment and the work Arndt put in that there wasn't a villain in place?
I'm not saying that means it is Plagueis. Just pointing out that the theory lives...
But Lucas must've had a villain in mind and then JJ and Kasdan threw a load of stuff out and did their own thing.
So who would Lucas' villain have been?

Now what is interesting is that JJ and Abrams came up with Snoke. They had a number of ideas for him.
This tells us that they likely rejected who Lucas had in place already.
And looking at what they (Disney) rejected seems closely connected to the PT. They wanted to distance themselves from that trilogy and recapture (reboot) the magic of the OT. So does this indicate that Lucas' villain would've had strong links to the PT?

I think so. And I totally understand that. Lucas was still very much of the mind that the saga should link up and be one film. Disney are taking that in a new direction to ensure that they can make endless films - to hell with having a rounded mythological tale! Lucas would've wanted to create an original piece of work but one that tied into all his films and especially into the story of Darth Vader - and who better than to do that?

Yes folks, you guessed it right - Darth Plagueis The Wise. Creator of Anakin Skywalker. Teacher of Darth Sidious. And cheater of death.

 

I just want to say, whilst i might get into heated arguments over this topic, PLEASE don't think this means i hate you or your contributions. I'll argue with you to the death but i don't want this to become or seen as hateful

 

There is absolutely zero evidence that they scrapped most of his ideas. Rewrites happen all the time. Everybody who significantly contributed to the story is credited. It happened with Jurassic World and it happend with The Force Awakens.
He said he was working on a version of Rey and it is highly likely that he was also working on a version of Snoke.

They didn`t have a screenplay, becuase they rewrote the script.They did have the general outline.

After nearly being assasinated by his own apprentice, I think Snoke would consider his old self to be dead, just like Vader.

The thing is, we know nothing about Darth Plagueis. The novel has been de-canonized two years after it`s release, because it suddenly contradicted George`s vision. (when he was working on his ST.)
Everything is possible, they can change the entire backstory. What if Sidious did not kill, but instead heavily injure Plagueis? Palpatine was so sadistic, I could imagine that he kept him as a live trophy, a sign that he is superior than his former master. In that case, I`m sure he would call Plagueis dead, while in reality, he was still very much alive and trying to free himself.
There are a ton of ways to explain it.

Jaws is not about sharks and Star Wars is not about lightsabers, that`s nothing new. It`s all about the characters.
JJ is special, because he likes to keep the characters mysterious until his films are released. He just loves the "I am your father moment" and that`s great!
Benedict Cumberbatch is Khan, Kylo is Han Solo`s son, Rey is force-sensitive and Snoke is really...

Yes, he wanted Snoke to look cool, I agree. But: If he wanted to make Plagueis the villain, do you really think he would've made him a Muun?
No, because he likes the mystery.

Same for me. That`s what we`re here for, right?

 

WOW!




Luceno was not given the Plagueis backstory from Lucas




Snoke is not like plagueis

 

That's me and @ITG doing what we do best (pestering Pablo about DP)!

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2016 ---

So much of that doesn't add up though. Questions remain...

• Luceno categorically said that he got the esigns and ideas behind Plagueis (species etc) from Lucas. He then said that all other canon info came from the highest LFL sources.
• Pablo said that Lucas threw out the DP novel because the backstory didn't work with what he wanted. JJ originally said it was a blanket sweep of pre-2014 material.
• JJ and Kasdan create a villain from scratch. Lucas and Arndt must've had one so who was he?