Extended Force-Back in VIII (via MSW)

I always said that the thing with three spikes in the background in the force vision scene is a building, just check the TFA shooting schedule, it's a palace (Jedi Temple).....


INT NIGHT - 202 - ACADEMY • Bodies left behind - Young Kylo Ren is gone

EXT DAY - 203 - JAGGED TERRAIN/PALACE • Kylo Ren joins The Knights Of Ren

EXT DUSK - 204 - ACADEMY • R2-D2 upset as his master leaves

EXT NIGHT - 205 - JAGGED TERRAIN/PALACE • Kylo Ren joins The Knights Of Ren

There's a reason why the Falcon/Tree/Ahch-to set is in close proximity to the other set.

 

these calling sheets have some repeat stuff and I think the repeat is 203, which had in another call sheet (Luke shows up). It is hard to make sense into the vision yet, but I have a feeling it is a mix of past and future. Also all the night shots Mark mentioned + and fx scene in the night shots show me Luke will fight there, so I guess it was a vision of the future for Rey in TFA and the KoR showing up on Ach-to.

 

Ok, thanks for sharing

 

Did they edit the part where it says YOUNG Kylo Ren After bodies? Because I remember him standing in front of the bodies. .

 

In the other call sheet it had a scene with dead bodies on the ground and Luke shows up (night scene). The next one following this was Luke saying good bye to R2.

 

They were not bodies, they were rocks

 

but not according to the call sheets.

 

I'm not sure if Luke fights there but I agree that it is a vision of the future. I'd say where ever Luke and Rey go, Kylo and the KoR hunt them down. Which I guess at the temple

 

I know

 

But i highly doubt they would ahve even filmed Luke fighting in TFA .

 

I never said they did.

 

nope, they did not film something like that for TFA and I even doubt Luke did fight in the aftermath of the temple massacre. What I mean is, that the vision may include parts of the future like a puzzle.

 

Yea that's what I'm saying, it's a temple/palace based on Angkor Wat pictured in my post

 

So are they standing on top of this palace? Because for a longtime I thought it just looked like some tower in the ground. Or some antenna. I could never tell

 

Hearing about the Force-back being expanded upon was pretty exciting for me, as it may or may not hold even more evidence for a pet theory of mine.

We've been led to think that Kylo Ren was the one who massacred Luke's Jedi, but my only question here is how in the HELL did he manage to do that? Supposedly it was with the help of the Knights of Ren, but you're telling me they took down an entire academy of students and fended off the most powerful Force-user around?

Here's how I think it went down: Kylo Ren indeed shows up at the academy with intent to destroy all of Luke's work, but it doesn't go to plan. He's finding himself to be overwhelmed. Luke, rather than see his own family get cut down, begs his students to stop. They don't, and Luke does what he feels he must, defending his nephew, and killing his students.

This mirrors Luke's actions on the second Death Star, where he almost killed his father for threatening to turn Leia to the Dark side. It even has shades of Anakin chopping Mace Windu's arm off when he threatened to kill Palpatine, supposedly the only man who could save Padme.

In this scenario, Han's recounting of the events at Luke's academy becomes much like the lie that Old Ben told on Tatooine. No, Han didn't lie, but the only person alive who could have told him what happened that fateful day was Luke, and I can imagine he decided that all Han and Leia needed to know was that their son had taken a bad turn.

I'll admit, Luke killing his own students is a tough sell, and some of the posts in other threads about this being a family franchise make me even more skeptical, but i'll be damn if I head-canon something for this long and not share it but I also like the way this suits the tone of what has happened to our Original Trilogy heroes.

Back to the Force vision, it does feel as though it is the curtain - or Mystery Box, if you're J.J. Abrams - around something rather dark that happened at the Academy. With Luke no doubt being more center stage in this next film, whispers of episode VIII getting dark, and now more added to this Force-back, I think this would definitely fit as the answer to one of our big questions from The Force Awakens.

 

What if instead of having Luke kill his students they opted for a less dark alternative where Luke knows the massacre is going to happen but choses not to intervene. Maybe Luke finds out but has to choose between saving his students or a loved one/family. I strongly believe that Luke knows who Rey is (just like Kylo did as depicted in the novelization) and perhaps instead of stopping the massacre of his pupils, he knows that Rey (or her parents) are in danger and opts to save them instead. That could also help strengthen the reasons why Luke went into exile following all this. After hearing that Rey's village was about to be attacked, he goes to save her but gets there too late or is unable to do anything about it. He presumes Rey dead not knowing her parents had dumped her on Jakku fer her protection. Thinking she's dead, he takes responsibility for not only not being able to save her, but also making what he now believes is the wrong decision as many of his students were murdered as a result of his decision as well

 

The weight of the evidence simply says that Kylo Ren destroyed Luke's students. It sounds a lot for just him to do that, but when you consider his power and the help of the other Ren's, then it isn't hard to grasp. We also see his ruthlessness on Jakku so it's not beyond him to commit such evil.

As for Luke, I don't buy the idea that he let it happen or knew it would happen. It's apparent that Luke gave up his life to train a new generation of Jedi. He would've been distraught at its destruction - he and it were the last hope for the Jedi. But there is a question about why he blamed himself and why he went into exile. Was he that grief stricken by losing Kylo Ren to the Dark Side? After the experience with his father, you'd think he could keep it together a bit better and fight for Ben Solo's soul?

My guess is that Luke isn't on Ahch-To out of exile, grief or self-loathing. He is there to protect something. Now whether that be his own survival and with it the survival of the Jedi Order, to find lost Jedi who might've taken sanctuary there or some great knowledge from yesteryear, we just won't know until December 2017. However, I think there is some greater mystery going on here that, along with Luke being on Ahch-To, brings together:

• The significant site on Jakku which Palpatine excavated.
• How the lightsaber went from Bespin to the KoR and then to Maz Kanata.
• Why Rey was left on Jakku and her history.
• Who Snoke is and where he came from.

I don't think that Kylo Ren is involved in any of this. I think it seems most likely that he was a young boy who knew he had a special power but this power wasn't being sued for anything. His parents kept things secret from him and neglected him in many ways. He felt powerless. Then rejected when sent to Luke. Throughout this time Snoke manipulated him - made him feel he had a greater purpose. Then he discovered his true ancestry and justified in his mind a new purpose that was in line with the legacy of Darth Vader. It seems he even had some kind of vision that he believed was Vader talking to him: "Show me again, the power of the darkness".

This is what I think the Force-Back is all about. It will reveal this great mystery that links all of the above.
In order to get anywhere we need to learn:

What was on Jakku; How the saber came to be in Maz's possession; who Rey's parents are; And who Snoke really is.

 

I don't believe that Ben was neglected or any other scenarios in which Han&Leia are portrayed as bad parents or Luke as a bad teacher to make Ben look better.

 

i'm with you 100% here.

i don't buy exile and i don't buy that he was upset and ran away from everything. he left for a good reason, and he stayed away for a good reason.
anything else would be a bitter pill for me to swallow.

Jakku and Ahch-to are very important, and i think we have a lot to find out about them.

 

Just created a thread on this. Check it out!

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/the-great-mystery-revealed.10067/