General Andor Series Discussion

Movies and shows that I love..

The Dirty Dozen
The Train
Attack!
Battleground
One Of Our Aircraft Is Missing
Band Of Brothers
Dad's Army
Casablanca
Stalag 17
Cross Of Iron
Escape To Athena (honestly)
Europa Europa
Downfall
Paths Of Glory
Stalingrad
The Pacific
Life Is Beautiful
Battle Of Britain
Tora! Tora! Tora!
The Life And Death Of Colonel Blimp (in my shortlist for best movie of all time)
Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade
City Of Life And Death (although I will never put myself through it again)
The Big Red One... and so on (I even love The Boys From Brazil "You ugly bi**h!"

I doubt that anyone with an interest in the world wars and movies would not share a similar selection to those choices. And have enjoyed the wide variety of movies based on that history.

When someone on twitter now says something like "Going back to Mandalorian after Andor ends will be like having professionally prepared meals from only the correct ingredients made by artisans and then being made to eat walmart chicken nuggets and frozen garlic bread with baked beans" it's a reminder of how pretentious the Star Wars bubble can be about its "values" and the lingering scourge of the "My dad's Star Wars can beat up your dad's Star Wars" mentality.

 

I hear that human beings are quite capable of enjoying more than one genre. While some fans 'don't get the SW feels' watching Andor, I can atest that it's possible to love Andor AND love the Favreau and Filoni shows.

 

Andy Serkis's character name.

We've got the German word for cinema (literally translates as moving) and the surname of golden age great Myrna Loy, who was the object of Michael J Pollard's character's desire in 1967's Bonnie & Clyde.

I wonder what that all means. If anything.

 

No, it's a bunch of taste-less clowns who think that because they love and understand the SW universe that they're somehow experts on cinema. They're not supposed to be the same style of television, and, depending on how you look at it, they're not even *really* written for the same audience. There's nothing wrong with the Mandalorian, and I enjoy the show. Everything is wrong with the person who expected Andor to the be the same show with a different protagonist.

Many of those fans who aren't getting the "SW Feels" are the ones looking for dogfights in space and lightsaber battles and excessive levels of fan service. One of the drawbacks of the success of Star Wars is that many fans have come to expect that *exact* feeling with every production. Looking at their entire body of work, I love what Filoni and Favreau have done - but that's not the only path to success. For decades I've wanted an intelligent Star Wars story. My only hope was the canonization and later origin stories of Thrawn based on Zahn's efforts to create a complicated character navigating their way through the universe without direct knowledge of the force. Andor took me by surprise with the storyline and I am beyond happy with the product thus far, in part because it's *not* like every other Star Wars product.


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Bottom line is there's no accounting for taste. This is clearly evident with one statement:

They are STILL making Fast & Furious movies!

I'm a consumer. I know what I like, and yes it's frustrating when some clown goes on YT and tears down something I enjoy and has the audacity to say it's "not Star Warsy" It makes me wish that Gilroy & Co would just do a cut scene where Jar Jar uses a lightsaber to slice a battle droid in half as he goofily says "roger, roger". No context, just 10 seconds then back to the grownups' TV show.

For me, anything SW is exciting. If Andor was set in modern day Cleveland I'd still think it's a well-written, exciting thriller. But it's a Star Wars story! I'm ecstatic that storytelling in MY Galaxy is maturing with me. The Mandolorian was a step in the same direction, and I enjoyed Book of Boba and Obi Wan. They told slightly more mature views while still keeping the expected aesthetic. I think there's an appetite for multiple styles within the Universe and it's only going to widen the fan base, increasing demand and therefore more stories being told.

 

Demand leads to product,
Product leads to filming,
Filming leads to watching,
Watching leads to... fandom suffering

 

I don't understand this fandom at all from time to time.
While I enjoy Mandalorian, it tends to be a bit overrated in contrast with everyone hating the sequels.
Obi-Wan for me was a huge letdown. Sadly, not storywise and Ewan McGregor was stellar, but the craft and visuals in the series were really bad at most times and the series felt pretty void after the first two episodes.
After Boba Fett being so so for me and being dissapointed with Obi-wan, I stepped into Andor, even after the cool trailers, with expecting nothing and forced myself to watch just because I am a massive fan. Even my best friend was already telling me, if I am not fatigued from Disney forcing stuff labeled Star Wars down our throats....
How wrong we were! The series is probably the best Star Wars content on Disney Plus to date!

The show is slowburner for sure. But the acting, the script and dialogues, the visuals... Man!
After Ludwig Goransson proved that being yourself and not emulating John Williams with orchestra works too, there are times when the music feels Star Wars, but I fell in love with the Blade Runner like soundtrack since Episode 1.

One of the interesting things about Disney Star Wars is, that when you do your own thing, it feels fresh and it usually turns out good.
And Tony Gilroy so far made the best series in the franchise in all regards in my honest opinion.
I understand different tastes, but the quality of the show is top notch and using real settings over volume speaks for itself.
Another thing this shows proved to me is, that Disney era doesn't work that well when relying too much on legacy characters (Solo, Obi-wan, Boba Fett),
but does wonders with new ones (Mandalorian, Andor, Rogue One).

 

THIS.

For SW to survive in today's market, it must evolve and cover a wide audience. This is best done by putting out content that doesn't always "look or feel like Star Wars" Rogue One was the first step in that direction and now Andor is a leap in that direction. What's the point of farming all these new writers and directors if they are made to fit into a predetermined box? I don't like to compare the two, but look at the MCU... Different styles and aesthetics break up the monotony and build varied viewpoints in a massive connected universe. Also I feel like Filoni has found the sweet spot for the future of SW animation with Tales of the Jedi. It could easily be expanded to Tales of the Rebellion, Tales of the Sith, Tales of the High Republic... The short anthology type format can be used to flesh out characters and storylines much more effectively than something like the derailed train that was The Book of Bob's Fett.

 

The huge problem with Boba Fett to me were high expectations. The character in the movies is this cool and mysterious person.
Prequels added a bit backstory the same way they did to Darth Vader. It worked for me.
His Clone Wars episodes were cool as well.

As much as I liked the underlying story in the Book Of Boba Fett about not being an employee or servant anymore and be your own boss, because you work hard and have the skills, the payback wasn't that great with some dubious choices.
The character lost the mystery around him, that he still retained in Mandalorian Season 2.
It was cool seeing him getting out of Sarlacc, stealing Slave 1 and training with Tuskens and saving Fennec. And that was it.
Could have worked as anthology, simmilar to Tales Of The Jedi, but I didn't enjoy the ''modern day'' Tatooine parts at all until Mandalorian was shoehorned in.

 

Don't get me wrong, I didn't dislike BOBF. His is by far the most plausible back-from-the-dead story in all of SW. The character deserved his own story, and even his redemption story was well done even though it revolved around him violently taking over one of the galaxy's most feared crime Lord's territory.
My comments about it being a derailed train were mostly concerning how it seemed as though a disproportionate amount of time was spent fleshing out other characters and loosely tying their stories to the series instead of digging deeper into Boba himself.

 

I agree actually. While I did love Mandalorian in the show, I felt that it was weird that it shifted basically to Mandalorian Season 2.5 and it kinda hurt Boba in the process. Plus I wasn't fan of the mods and Tatooine much. The designs were OK, but they could have been handled better and somehow, I didn't get that fancy Mos Espa in a crater metropolis. Always thought that it is mostly a backwater planet with some dirty small towns and Jabba's palace.

 

I wasn't a fan of the body modification business either until it was pointed out to me by someone here that body modifications have been a part of Star Wars since The Empire Strikes Back. Oops.

The problem I had with Mos Espa -- which, I suspect, was TV budget related -- is that it felt too empty. Just as Tattooine has a bunch of dirty small towns, I expected Mos Espa to be a big, dirty overcrowded and poverty-stricken city.

 

At least confirmed for episode 10. Of course I will not say it here.
Enjoy the new episode and cya in the discussion.

 

Yeah, I saw it too after ep.7
The image was actually from one of the first trailers from what I understand, but I treated it as a spoiler also due to the context.

 

Split the fanbase? That feels a bit melodramatic to me. In our increasingly polarized world it's like we delight in taking every opportunity to make everything an "us vs them" scenario.

In this particular case, it's like arguing which is the better movie The Godfather or Raiders of the Lost Ark. Both are rightly considered movie classics in their own genres so why waste time and energy arguing which is 'better'?

I can understand why some fans might not like one or the other. I can also understand why some fans love both. But unlike TLJ, Andor should be able to peacefully coexist with the traditional SW fare without pot-shots being taken on either one 'from the other side.' Just the other day I read that the Andor series' 'stunning realism' has taken some of the luster off The Mandalorian. Huh? That's just as ridiculous as the notion that Andor is boring because it lacks the usual action-adventure of a lightsaber duel every episode.

Rejection seems too strong a word. It plays right into the whole "us vs them" mindset.

Here's a thought: Maybe, just maybe, a new SW project that doesn't follow the standard format is not going to be everybody's cup of tea. Can't we just leave it at that without feeling compelled to "bash" those who like it or those who don't?

 

For someone who loves The Book of Boba Fett and Andor respectively, I think you got it just right... kudos to you Cantinian, or shall I say DD?

 

Darth but fair.

 

Am I missing something with this Mon Mothma storyline? The consensus seems to poise this as Mon facing the choice to "do something horrible to her daughter that was done to her".
There are two issues here, the arranged marriage, which seems to be traditional way among the Chandrillan people, and more importantly the motivation and reasons behind this particular union.
I never took it from the conversation that Mon was forced into marrying Perrin. She was from wealth, obviously, and on-track to be a Senator. They married young as was the custom, but it seems like he has mostly played the role of the dutiful spouse of a politician. He's matured into a top-notch D-bag, but that seems to be a result of his environment. He's an elitist but only because of Mon's position. He had some military training, but obviously he never got to the point of serving in any capacity, merely schooling. They had a happy marriage, or at least a sense of contentment for many years. They are growing apart in recent years because he sees her as wasting her time being idealistic, and she sees him as apathetic. She feels stuck in her current family situation, but she's definitely not oppressed.

The dilemma she's facing is involving her daughter in not only her business dealings, but in dealings that are tied to treason and with a family of ill-repute. Chances are that Mon would have fought Perrin over Leida being put into an arrangement with another family based on wealth or power. She has made several comments about "the old ways" and would likely prefer Leida to make her own future. Perrin will likely be in favor of the idea, but suspicious that Mon is proposing it.

 

It seems that Leida being betrothed, although old fashioned, is somewhat socially acceptable in Chandrila. However. It is clear that Mon Mothma is unhappy with how that worked out for her. Her acceptance of Leida following the same path would be a huge personal dilemma. How can she rationalise letting Leida live a life of conformity while she fights for liberty? Particularly as it's motivated by money.

 

Divide and rule. A lot of fans and commentators only feel comfortable when "losers" and "winners" are clearly defined with each Star Wars release.

Even with SWNN's reviews, I feel as if there is affirmative action to identify and enhance the stature of anything that might "appeal" to those who have a basic negative position. Like a droid that appeared in TBoBF having already appeared at Galaxy's Edge being highlighted for the benefit of people who want to read something sinister into any instance of LFL exploiting their IP for promotional or merchandising purposes.

The you get the lunacy of people claiming that developments within a series are made ad hoc in order to appease critics of previous episodes. Or to pander to one element of the fandom in order to keep them on board.

It's a schoolyard mentality. A lot of people just never leave the schoolyard.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2022, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2022 ---

I think that perception has a lot to do with the fan's sense of ownership of legacy characters. Whenever LFL does one of these shows a lot of viewers feel like they in the driver's seat of a car they aren't actually in control of. And despair when it doesn't take the route they want it to or doesn't keep the schedule they feel it could keep. A lot of fans just expect affirmation and confirmation from legacy character material and aren't receptive to revelation. Whereas with new or characters, everything is revelation and people don't try to take the wheel. Although the fans will inevitably start calling the shots with Mando and Andor. (They already objected to Mando appearing in TBOBF, for reasons. And some are now confident enough to tell us that Andor is not fulfilling the tacit "promise" of its supposed four arcs of three parts each structure etc, etc.)