How do you interpret the prophecy of the chosen one

I'll sub. Yoda is hardly clear what he means. And return of the jedi provides no narrative closure on the matter. The real problem is is that George Lucas now and then changes his mind. After Return of the Jedi he had no idea the concept of "the chosen one" played any role in the saga. This is an idea he developed in the 90s and presented in The Phantom Menace. But he then again emended his idea in return of the sith by making Obi Wan claim "you were the chosen one Anakin". The Clone Wars episode and @Darth Lexor Kai 's interpretation of it above suprises me. I did not really pay attention when watching that episode so I should watch it again. If he is correct, then George Lucas changed his ideas about the Chosen One again when collaborating in the making of Clone Wars. I see every reason why the new story group wants to streamline the whole "chosen one" discussion/trope because until now it has been a mess.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2016 ---

we should find a quote somewhere about Lucasfilm's interpretation of "destiny" and "fate' Ask Hidalgo, though I am expecting him to pull op a smoke screen. Then you know your in the right direction.

 

at the time of Anakin, there seemed to be lots of light force users and hardly any dark side users. (the jedi thought the sith were extinct in TPM)

if you want to just be literal....
Anakin killed a few dark force users, and a LOT of Light force users.

Anakin brought balance to the force. simples.

i don't think that's my actual opinion - as the reason we're all discussing it is because it's been left for interpretation... much like a prophecy is ironically.

it's only GL confirming Anakins redemption that has me accepting that he was in fact redeemed by killing the emperor.
a Sith lord's apprentice would take any good opportunity to kill his master.. i see that final scene in ROTJ as vader taking that opportunity and only when Luke rushes to his side does he 'redeem' himself.

as is the way with SW films... so many scenes can be seen in different ways.

 

Fate and destiny are two different things.
Your destiny is something that you were born to do - but you don't necessarily achieve it. You choose your destiny.
Anakin chose the Dark Side at first but then switched back to the light and brought balance.
Fate is something you cannot escape. It's an event that is simply going to happen regardless of your choices.

That's exactly what balance is though. The equality of good and evil. It's a fine balance. And it can be moved this way or that slightly. But what the Sith do is completely destroy the balance. They put it out by a long way as they have the power and means to spread evil across the galaxy. So when Anakin finally destroys the Sith, that threat is severely weakened. Without the Sith the Empire itself crumbles and retreats. Hope, peace and freedom spreads across the galaxy once more and good and evil are equal. However, as we see the FO has risen from the ashes of the Empire and the balance is destined to be destroyed again.

It might be done that way.
The problem with the ST is that they either have to say Anakin never brought balance or that the balance has gone again.
Either way has a diminishing impact on the story of Anakin Skywalker.

However, I think the best way to go is to say that he did bring balance thus not diminishing his act - but that as the people after him didn't do what was needed, evil has risen again. If we say Anakin didn't bring balance then we are Frelling all over his story from I-VI.

I also am a big fan to the "Rey is the chosen one" theory. I can see how the "energy" of the chosen one could be reincarnated once more in her. And as Anakin was responsible for the rise of the Empire, of which the ramifications are felt once more (even though he brought balance), it will be down to Rey to not only balance the Force but perhaps ensure that this evil cannot rise again.

This links into my other theory that Finn could lead a stormtrooper rebellion. Be a sort of Spartacus type figure - leading the Stormtroopers to freedom and thus ending the conflict peacefully and without any threat of it emerging again. Alongside this, I think Rey will defeat Snoke by turning Kylo back and by peacefully bringing down the FO. This will then diminish the Dark Side to the point that Snoke will be very vulnerable and may even not be able to live without its extreme power....

 

I wish I had time to explaining it in detail. I'm in class now so maybe latter if someone doesnt get to it before I do. In the meantime I recommend reading About Mortis on Wookieepedia.

Ani was the literal chosen one who was created by the force to bring balance between the dark and light sides.

 

Sorry, might have got ahead of myself.

No, my view is that balance is to do with the good and evil in the galaxy being balanced - not there being equal jedi and sith. The Sith by their nature, whether there be 2 or 100 cause massive destruction. The Jedi simply maintain peace and justice. But maybe we shouldn't go down this road again!

It does diminish it as it's now saying that Anakin was not that important.
Indeed, peace doesn't last forever and that is why it is better that Anakin did bring balance but that it went out again - very quickly and by a long way. That still keeps Anakin's act at the end of ROTJ as hugely important.

I believe Yoda was referring to whether Anakin would actually bring balance. It's the classic line that forewarns us of the fact that Anakin could fail or might not be the chosen one at all. To newcomers to the saga, they will think Yoda was right up until ROTJ.

"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance. It's easier to succumb to evil than it is to be a hero and try to work things through on the good side. Evil is inherently more powerful—it doesn't have the burden of worrying about other people. What Luke sees in Darth Vader at the end of ROTJ is something that I thought was worth understanding: the idea that Darth actually was a very good person. Except he's slightly more powerful than other people and when you get into that situation, your ability to do evil is much easier to come by."
--George Lucas

If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is grey. In each of us we have balanced these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this. In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces. All of this shall be explained in Episode 2, so I can't say any more!
- CUT interview 09/07/99?

I think it is obvious that Qui-Gon was wrong in Episode 1 and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor.
- CUT interview 09/07/99?

That is the original intention by Lucas.
I can't really get my head around the idea of the Jedi needing to be destroyed to bring balance. I can't see how there is too much good. It is evil that is the problem. The destruction, cancerous evil spread by the Sith.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2016 ---

Firstly, it cuts out Mace's line:

"So the prophesy says", in response to Kenobi's question.

Anyway, all that stuff is pre-OT! It comes before Anakin actually comes back and brings balance. At that point (PT) it looks like he is the chosen one, then he goes bad and so don't think he will bring balance. But as the Jedi are all saying balance = destroying the Sith.

Look at it this way, the Jedi see the force going out of balance as a bad thing. There powers are diminished. If the Force was out of balance in their favour in the PT, why would it be a negative thing?

"It's not that they can't see the Dark Side coming, it's just that the Dark Side begins to envelop everything. It's like walking into a fog. The Jedi's ability to see lessens as the Dark Side grows."
+
"At the same time, they felt their own power waning even as their most promising new apprentice completed his training and stood poised to fulfill his destiny as the Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force."

--George Lucas

 

They didn't prohibit love. They encouraged it. Anakin was redeemed because he did the Jedi thing - acted selflessly. Unconditional love.

He's not the last word anymore but he's the best person to listen to if you want to get a handle on what was intended in terms of story and visuals.

Don't know. It's a computer game. It has no bearing on my understanding of things. I don't really get it.

I think he perhaps could once have been. I think he is essentially a Sith just not by name.
How could Anakin balance the Force whilst Snoke lived? We've had this discussion before - and as I said then, if Snoke was alive but inactive - as in not spreading evil, then he wouldn't have impacted upon the balance. I put his inactivity down to his injuries, his vulnerability and biding his time until Sidious fell.

I'm not sure what i said that suggested that, but my view is that he is likely Darth Plagueis or someone of that ilk. Whether he still calls himself a Sith I do not know.

But just to be clear - the Sith don't cause imbalance just by calling themselves Sith. It's what they do that causes imbalance.
Sidious and Vader actively spread evil across the galaxy thus destroying the balance. If Snoke calls himself a Sith or not, if he is inactive then he ain't doing jack to the balance. But we will have to wait and see what the new writers do.

All I can say is that the story thus far has been about Anakin being born with the prophesy to bring balance, seemingly failing at first and then succeeding. In order for this to remain the case, then Snoke must either be a completely new character that emerges psot-ROTJ or a Sith from the passed, that cheated death but remained dormant for a long time, up until Sidious' demise.

 

Anakin was the chosen one but he didn't fullfill his destiny. You don't bring peace to a place by killing everyone.

Just my opinion.

 

Not really. Disney aren;t going to change everything. They might change one or two story elements but what George laid down, remains.

What I was saying there was about asking how Snoke could've known Leia was a Skywalker. I was saying that other than the obvious good guys, only Vader and Sidious knew of this - but they only found out in the end scene of ROTJ and were then killed - hence they couldn't have passed it onto Snoke - whoever he is - in some way. That was in a thread asking: How does Snoke know Ben is a Skywalker?

Huh? People were talking about whether Anakin brought balance...and uh, you're opening post refers to the balance.

 

I hate prophesy plot lines to begin with, but here is what I think.

I agree with Anakin being the chosen one. He did not fulfill the prophesy, which doesn't not make him the chosen one as the future is always changing and Anakin bringing balance during Mortis was one of the potential futures.

The Mortis beings were celestials (literally the embodiments of the force.) Anakin was meant to take the place of the father and keep the son and daughter in check, thus balance achieved.

 

Lucasfilm decides what is canon now: the clone wars, the movies, rebels and all the books and games released since the canon wipe. George Lucas' personal views and opinions on the matter and his exegesis on "the chosen" were never coherent in the first place. He changed his ideas and interpretation numerous times in the 90s and 2000s. Again, the movies and all those new media did not resolve in anyway the question whether Anakin brought balance in the force or whether he was the chosen one. The best way to watch the original and prequel movies now is to forget all the previous backstory about things you didn't see on screen. What you must do now is look how the different unresolved issues and lacuna fit in with The Force Awakens and the sequels. That is ultimately what the writers of the sequels themselves are doing at this moment. They need to conclude the Skywalker saga one way or the other and they need to make Rey stand out and be different from the other two Skywalkers.

 

I am fairly certain we do not. If I had to take a guess, it would probably have been the Celestial father or someone involved with him.(via either vision, actually being on mortis, or some sort of method of communication similar to Yoda's in Rebels)

 

Ok. Did I say otherwise?

Do you read my responses? I have answered this countless times.
If he is a Sith but has been doing nothing for years then he won't have impacted upon the balance.

What?

More ridiculous than Anakin Skywalker, the hero of the saga, the person the first 6 films were about - not actually having brought balance? Even though he was the chosen one? And the creator said he was? And said he brought balance? If Anakin didn't bring balance then it belittles the PT.

The balance is likely to always be in an ebb and flow motion. But when the Sith are around they completely destroy it. That is what Anakin put an end to. Before that the Jedi were more than able tod eal with threats that arose in the galaxy. They kept the peace. They kept the balance. Then the Sith came and completely wiped them and the balance out.

And it's not just the Jedi interpretation. It's Lucas interpretation. And it's the only interpretation that makes sense in regard to Star Wars being a moral tale - a mythological moral guide. If the meaning was that there was too much good in the galaxy that would be insane. And it is evil that is destructive. It's evil that, as Lucas explains, takes over and destroys everything.

And I will ask again, if restoring balance meant that the Jedi needed to be destroyed in the PT, why were there powers diminishing? Surely, if there was too much good then that would be good for the Jedi? But it wasn't like that. Darkness was everywhere. And this is what put the Force out of balance. It even says in the opening scroll of ROTS: EVIL IS EVERYWHERE!

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2016 ---

In the PT we're told the Force is going out of balance.
The Jedi find Anakin and say he is the prophesised chosen one and that this means he will destroy the Sith which will bring balance to the Force.

At the end of ROTJ, Anakin returns and kills the Sith. Therefore it is heavily implied that he has restored balance.

Now this is the problem I had with the ST from the get-go. Whether Lucas originally thought of doing an ST or not, with the PT he essentially made it a six part story about Darth Vader. ROTJ was a definitive ending. But now we have an ST and the new writers need to decide how to continue the saga.

They have 2 options:

1) Say the balance wasn't restored. If they do this, then they can easily introduce a new baddie who the Skywalkers didn't know about and who emerged after the events of ROTJ. The problem with this is that it will piss all over Vader's story. It will also be a massive retcon.

2) Say that Anakin did bring balance but that because Luke failed to restore the Jedi Order, a new evil has risen and the balance has been destroyed again. The problem with this is that it's a bit contrived (maybe not contrived, but a bit...can't think of the right word!) BUT it at least does not diminish Anakin's story and role. The fact that they have made Snoke vulnerable and obviously injured also allows for the strong possibility that up until now he has been unable to get involved in galactic affairs and thus didn't have an impact upon the balance of the Force.

 

BTW, after seeing The Force awakens, my first thought was : Rey is the chosen one. Maybe he's back, maybe he's not but she's the real deal.