RUMOR I broke the recent news on MvS's character. Let's discuss.

See, this is why just axing the old EU was like tossing the baby out with the bathwater. As far as the new canon is concerned, there's nothing in the Darth Plagueis novel that couldn't still mesh with what they're doing now, but because it was written pre-acquisition (barely) it is still considered "Legends." So before, we had a plausible explanation for Anakin's birth: Plagueis and Palps messed with the Force too much, too often, and the Force "struck back" by creating Anakin. Now, we're left with an unexplained virgin birth.

The "Legends" explanation makes a whole lot of sense, it even gives more weight to two movie scenes in particular: The first time Palpatine meets Anakin at the end of TPM ("We shall watch over your career with great interest.") and the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis in ROTS. The former is Palpatine realizing who/what Anakin is and why he is so interested in him as an apprentice, the latter is Palpatine very nearly explaining to Anakin why he was born. But no, instead we're left with just a vague Christ-like metaphor that bogs down the saga even more than Midichlorians (IMHO).

Here's to hoping that we see some explanation of this son in the new canon; IF Plagueis is featured in TFA, then retroactively including his self-titled novel would be an excellent (and efficient!) way of doing so.

 

As you wish...

Spoiler: spoiler on Luke

He's Vader's son...

 

Jason at MSW did a marvelous thing by not releasing all the code names for all the characters that his documents provide. He has even gone forth and personally discussed some of them with Star Wars site owners so they can use them to validate rumor claims.

So again Hizzo, sounds like a great rumor but do you care to back it up with some proof. Every major character has a code name that is present on all the documentation, from call sheets to the actual script. If your source is a writer on the team this shouldn't be a problem.

All we need is just one simple code name to verify your claims.

Just one.

So care to enlighten us?

 

Do you have proof that he did this? And who is to say that there aren't different code names being used for different media, like one for novelists and one for TFA production? MSW may have some insight into TFA (or may not), but it doesn't make them the go-to for all Star Wars media.

 

My apologies EricHizzo, I was mistaken and thought you meant the writing staff of the Force Awakens. In this particular rumor (something from the novel side of things) may be difficult to prove. Again my apologies.

 

I see the 3rd Reich iconography of the 1st Order but the 1st Order also feels similar to the EU group "The One Sith." Even before the trailer I posted about the possibility of a Sith cult that venerated Vader and/or Sidious. So Kylo might not be impersonating Vader as in trying to pass himself off as Vader but is seen as a new incarnation of Vader or a religious successor. This makes me wonder if the code for MVS as "The Vicar" might point to 1st Order connection.

 

I read this entire thread while at work...slow day....and I have a couple of theories/fanfic and points I just want to mention.

1. MvS story sounds completely plausible. I wondered about why him and his crew were never rescued and why is Kylo Ren just now (30 years or so?) returning to kill them all.

• The U.S.S. Indianapolis delivered the first atomic bomb to the island of Tinian on 26 July 1945. There mission was so secretive that when the ship was torpedoed it was a matter of days before anyone realized they were missing. Perhaps MvS battle group or small fleet was on a top secret mission, either super weapon delivery or exploration and was attacked and destroyed and all were feared lost.
• Someone pointed out that the Anakin/Luke blue lightsaber was being passed on or apart of Kylo's collection...they would had to have found it after the duel on Cloud City since it fell with his hand...this sets up my next point.
• If they found the original lightsaber then perhaps they found Luke's hand still clutched around the handle of the saber.
• COMPLETE SPECULATION ALERT!!!! Perhaps Kylo Ren is a Clone of Luke Skywalker from his hand that was lost at the duel on Cloud City. Plagueis/Uber/The First Order created the clone in order to make the ultimate Skywalker Killer. The goal was to be stronger than any Skywalker or Jedi.
• Now the Luke Clone, "Kylo Ren" is out to hunt down the Skywalker/Solo family and any ties to their family.
• Since he is a clone this explains his inconsistent use of the force and his sometimes psychotic behavior.
• JUST AN ASSUMPTION: He finds out about Jakku and begins his search there in order to help him eliminate the Skywalkers.
• Plagueis/Uber/Whoever is controlling him has been giving him orders this whole time, fueling him by saying he will never be as powerful as Darth Vader his "Father" which is why he is seeking to emulate Vader and hunt down his Father's killers.

2. We see a lot of flashbacks in this movie and we see Ren and Rey as (Solo) children at the Jedi Academy, the Academy comes under attack by the Empire and Luke's wife is killed (flashback in the 2nd trailer with his hand on R2.) Ren is captured by the Empire and Rey escapes. Luke, fearing his failure again and loss of his wife goes into exile while Ren gains power in the First Order fueled by his sense of abandonment. Rey, drawn by the events on Jakku comes out of hiding and begins again to tap into her connection with the force and realizing her potential.


3. What if the galaxy is still in fact divided. Portion of the galaxy is controlled by the First Order while the other side is New Republic. This Resistance group is just a pocket of Freedom Fighters trapped behind enemy lines fighting for their local systems. While the NR is focused on the front lines.

Just some ideas that I had...although #1 really hit me like a ton of bricks today, idk why.

 

Ok... It really bothers me that some folks actually believe that it is even a possibility that we'll see Luke's hand attached to the ESB saber floating through space and land on Jakku. Isn't it more likely that if Jakku is a planet for scavengers that the Bespin mining team found it and would have sold/traded it to some pirates and it ended up there? There is not a chance in HELL that the writers of this film would incorporate something so ridiculous. This film is in good hands and not in the hands of the monster who created Jar Jar Binks. We will not see Luke's hand floating through space after 30 years. Stop. Please. Oh my god.

 

I have to agree that there is no chance that Fanfic #1 in your post is possible, forseveral reasons, one of which is already mentioned: There can be no floating Luke hand because there is no definitive evidence that the hand or saber fell out the bottom of Cloud City. This point has been well addressed in other threads so I won't elaborate further here.

Next, the only person in the cast who looks remotely like a clone of Luke is Gleeson, but the vast majority of the evidence points to Driver playing Kylo Ren. And he looks absolutely nothing like Luke, let alone a viable option for a clone of him.

Finally, the whole premise of this thread (MVS leads abandoned Star Destroyer crew as surviving colony on Jakku) is suspect at best. All of this was discussed at some length in the "Who is MVS" thread earlier today. Have a look, but the TL;DR version is that the original Reddit post that originated this rumor or speculation (whichever you believe it to be) practically admitted it was fanfic and claimed that MVS and his crew were the first ever settlers on Jakku. However, AT-ATs on the planet suggest there was a major land battle there, which would make no sense if it was completely uninhabited.

While I applaud creativity, and the underlying premise certainly has some appeal, this particular one is simply fanfic based on fanfic.

 

Your honor, I'd like to submit Exhibit A : definitive evidence of Luke's saber.

The original Reddit poster started this thread and wrote this: "I know more than ever that my source is legit. In my original thread I said my source works in Hollywood but acknowledged that he has no connection to TFA's production. My source went to Northwestern University and majored in English. He lives in LA and his social circle is other writers. He was giving me a hard time for doubting him - so he told me his information ("just because my source was not on TFA's set doesn't mean it is not a legit source silly") comes from an author who will be writing a new EU novel that has yet to be announced. The plot is about the aftermath of the Battle of Jakku, more specifically the first settlers. Again, the first settlers are the surviving crew of a crashed Star Destroyer and MvS was the commanding officer of the Star Destroyer. The crew are stranded. The 'first responders' aren't interested in rescuing anyone."

And here's another battle on an uninhabited planet:


HOLY CRAP!!@!@!RW AT-AT WALKERS ON AN UNINHABITED PLANET@! OMGGGGG.

I've come a long way...from doubting Luke's saber....to embracing it....I wish Jason were here to see this....

 

If you will embrace the vomit scene your journey to the dark side will be complete

 

I didn't say Luke's saber doesn't exist, I said we don't know that it fell out of the bottom of Cloud City as the OP suggested.

With regard to the first post about the rumor on this forum, I would still go back to the original Reddit post to evaluate the authenticity.

Nonetheless, he says the Star Destroyer crew are the first settlers. In other words, the planet was completely uninhabited. Hoth was not completely uninhabited - as soon as the Rebels set up shop, it was inhabited. It took them around 2 years to settle there. This provides a reason for the Empire to use AT-ATs. If Jakku is completely uninhabited, and it was a space battle (as the original Reddit post said), there is no reason to deploy AT-ATs, yet we know they are on the ground in Jakku. All of this is already covered ground, as I referenced the Who Is MVS thread. I'm not going to further rehash it here, so feel free to go review the debate, how AT-ATs are deployed by Titans, why AT-ATs would not just walk out of a downed Star Destroyer, etc. Someone posted some very good pictures of the equipment used with AT-AT deployment In that thread.

In sum, the only logical conclusion is that there is no reason AT-ATs would be on Jakku if the very first settlers or inhabitants were stranded during the space battle over Jakku.

 

Oh, okay we'll just chalk it up to semantics. Language means something, if we can just excuse everything by suggesting we don't mean what we say, then you can always backpedal out of something. But if we want to test the credibilty of a rumor or speculation, we have to be able to rely on the things people say.

And don't forget that Battlefront certainly supports the idea of a major land battle on Jakku.

Finally, we can come up with all kinds of scenarios to excuse an inconsistency between a rumor and what we actually know. But usually the most simple explanation is the correct one (Occam's Razor) and the most logical explanation is that the presence of AT-ATs strongly supports the idea that Jakku was already inhabited.

 

What Occam's Razor actually suggests is this

"among competing hypotheses that predict equally well, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected"

It even suggests that a more complicated hypotheses may eventually be more accurate but you should START with the one with fewest assumptions. This is basically to ensure that philosophical arguments don't devolve into nonsensical garblygook.

Also just because a planet is uninhabited doesn't mean there can't be a land battle as the Hoth example was used to express. Would you like real world examples?