Main Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Episode IX Thread

If there's a story that involves Rey, Finn, and/or Poe and Ben is alive, I think most people would expect him to be a part of the story with a Force relevant plot (which is reasonable). I agree that what you are saying isn't mathematically impossible (it isn't) but I don't think it's probable. The easiest and most uncomplicated way to end the Skywalker saga is for him to die. Maybe LFL will reverse themselves on that or provide some other Skywalker lineage. I honestly doubt it (since they've already been pummeled for their handling of the legacy characters, if they reverse course now, it was all for nothing)

Since you are mentioning Anakin though, let's observe that:

1. Anakin's resolution of his turmoil ended with his death
2. Luke's resolution of his turmoil ended with his death

If that pattern holds (and given the franchise penchant for cinematic "rhyme") what is the most likely outcome? That Ben dies. But it also predicts there will be a redemption before that death.

Do you see conflict on her face or resolution? I don't see any conflict at all, I see resolve. She had her moment of angst when she pleaded with Kylo not to "go this way". This scene least of all suggests to me that there is any future Reylo.

 

You can have a ending without the answer being more death. It's why the logo is blue and the title is more uplifting then TLJ.

 

Again, I am not arguing that it is impossible. I'm suggesting it is highly unlikely. If LFL wasn't insisting that this is the end of the Skywalker saga, I'd be willing to believe that Kylo could survive the Episode. But with LFL making a point of saying it's the end of the Skywalker saga, with Ben being the only blood Skywalker left, and with every other troubled force using Skywalker tackling turmoil just before death (Anakin and Luke) and I just don't see where it's plausible that Kylo doesn't die also.

 

i see the same scene, and yes.. I see resolve from Rey. Do I think she is closing the door on Ben? no, I do not.

It’s a personal interpretation, and one that’s difficult to explain and impossible to prove. I think she is showing Ben that she has made her choice.. this is her ‘side of the fence’ and that’s where she’ll stay. Ben won’t try any dark side persuasion with her again - he respects her. his choices for their next encounter are clear to him - he either joins her or kills her.
and to be clear.. joining her doesn’t mean Reylo. it could be that, but that’s not what his choice is about.

as I said before, I saw something between them during both movies.. something that clearly many saw.
The biggest ‘moment’ for me was the first time Rey called him Ben when they were face to face.. he turned to her immediately as though the name Kylo never existed, and yet when Han called him that it infuriated him.

it could go in any direction from here.. redemption / Reylo / dark side.

I have no idea, and that excites me.

I want a happy ending for Ben - Han & Leia’s son. to me, that ending means that he is at peace with himself and no longer feels that he is being torn apart. whether he’s on the light side or gets a girlfriend is low on my wish list if that makes sense? lol

 

Compare the scene from TLJ with this ending scene from 50 Shades of Grey:

=> in the next movie they get married (right?)

Coincidence? I don't think so!

Rey closes the door on Kylo Ren, but not Ben Solo. Rey doesn't want to be with Kylo but with his light side counter part Ben. She is more or less saying: "Get your sh!t together, or you will never get me."

 

i said it before: the saga is not going to end with killing the child of our OT heroes.
if anything, the death of the previous Skywalkers tells us it's about time one lived.

 

I really hope that the writers see it that way. I really want Ben to find his peace, but not in a way that he sacrifices his life or something similar.

I want to see him use his super cool powers and strenght to destroy the bad guys in one final twist of the saga.

We all root for the guy and that means that they managed to create a deep and meaningful character for whom we care about.
You can say what you want about sequels but you cannot deny that they created some great characters.

 

The point is that we should watch all the movie. Not a scene in a vacuum.
And quite frankly...
She closes the door moments after the hug with Finn and moments before her meeting with Poe, with him saying “I know (who you are)” that is the counterpoint to “you are nothing”.
And like I said elsewhere one should pay attention to both Kylo and Poe in TLJ.
The 2 arcs parallel each other with totally opposite results.
The two are built up as foils.

To me all of this doesn’t set Kylo realizing that he has to fight for her, but the dynamic good people bond, make their own family and win/ bad people are alone and fail.

And if there’s going to be a redemption arc for Kylo/Ben this will be the core point.

He betrayed his family to seek something (power, revenge, them both?) and he’s going to fail nevertheless. In short he did that for nothing.
He killed his own father for nothing etc...
Rey - who never had a family (just like Finn) - will find her own surrogate family, a new one and she’s going to win etc....

In addition

Spoiler

The rumors about the mask seem to confirm that we’re not going to get a Kylo Ren tempted by the light side, but quite the contrary. If there’s going to be a redemption... imo, it’ll be next to the finale

 

I personally prefer no redemption if that means Kylo gets to live... At least that opens the door for him becoming good in that future trilogy KK was very shyly hinting at during celebration... They aren’t done with these characters yet. There will be more stories about them in the future. Maybe Kylo helps the good guys in TROS without turning completely good himself.

 

Even though I like the idea of having more stories with Kylo Ren, I really doubt Adam Driver would come back for more movies. Furthermore, when would we get those movies? First of all we'll get the RJ and GOT makers movies.

 

I feel like Kylo's character arc has been really interesting lately. The Last Jed kind of introduced a redemption arc but with J.J Abrams who knows. It will be very interesting to see what happens to his character. Assuming he lives, I feel like we will definitely see him around in 10-20 years.

 

But we don’t know what the RJ’s and GOT makers’ trilogies are going to be about or when they will begin filming... I wouldn’t be surprised if the ST gang is in one of them...
I know that Adam Driver is very particular about his acting roles, but I am inclined to think he doesn’t consider SW’s different from other jobs... He seems to be attracted by directors and movie makers more than by his image as an actor. He is pretty absent from social media and tends not to watch his films or fall for the hype. I think that if he sees there is room for the character of Kylo to grow, he will come back to the role.

 

Nuh uh, there's evidence in TFA, too, but that was just the beginning since they'd just met each other.

1. The way Kylo carries Rey to his ship like a damsel in distress on Takodana.
2. The marked difference in Rey's interrogation versus Poe's.
3. Kylo removes the mask immediately as soon as she mentions it.
4. The look of awe on his face when she force pulls the saber in the forest on SK Base.
5. He's not trying to kill her, he says he wants to teach her to use the force when they're battling with the sabers in the forest.

Of course TLJ has way more evidence to support it, but you really think Rian shut the door because of the ending of TLJ? Rey looks down at the broken saber, then at Finn and Rose. What do you think she's thinking about there? I have an opinion on that and I have to disagree with your line of thinking here.

Maybe you don't want that outcome, which is fine, and are apt to write off the smaller instances.

 

1. I don't agree that Han calling Kylo Ben infuriated him, it shook him to his core more than anything else. And then, at the moment, there was a part of him that wanted to be Ben. There isn't a part of him that wants that anymore (at least in Rian's treatment, JJ may elect to change that)
2. I agree that Rey has made her choice and it's part of why I don't see a Reylo. Rey made her case to join them, only to see who she thought was there wasn't real. She's not closing the door on Ben at the end, she's closing the door because there IS no Ben. She's done with this guy Kylo, and Kylo is all that's left.

Kylo Ren is all that is left. You are more or less saying Rey wants him, nothing (even in TLJ) suggests that that's true. She was definitely eager to turn Kylo back to Ben for the sake of the Resistance, but that's it. I think people are mistaking empathy for attraction. She has empathy for someone she thinks is still there initially, he is not. She doesn't hesitate or waiver closing the door because she is through with him.

They're not going to kill him without redeeming him. You'll get Force Ghost Ben (because no one's ever really gone), but he is definitely going to die.

There's definitely evidence that Kylo is infatuated with Rey (on what level is unknown). The infatuation is not reciprocal. She closed the door on that dude and moved on.

 

i find it oddly contradictory that in the same post that you said there is no Ben, you also said they won't kill him without redeeming him (resulting in Force Ghost Ben). either he's gone or he's not. Luke seems to indicate that he's not. he specifically says this to Leia to give her hope when all her hope is gone.

and don't forget too, that Rey wanted to bring Ben back to the Light not for his own sake but to save the Resistance. he failed her and she failed him. they are both crushed and disappointed in one another, but he's the one on the floor having literally won the galaxy but looking like he lost everything (and he has).

i'm banking on a live Ben at the end of ix.
to me that's the only end that makes sense of all this suffering.
but i guess we'll wait and see, right? : D

 

Personally I didn't see Kylo in that scene but Ben. This scene was definitely meant to be a mirror of Anakin's "What have I done?" moment of ROTS. But other than Anakin, Kylo/Ben can still make the right decision. Yes, of course he won't realise this at the beginning of the next movie...

This would make Rey a terrible person for me. She pretty muched had "sex" (RJ's words) with Kylo only because of empathy and then she threw him away, because she had realised she didn't like him. Yeah, I know this happens in real life too... : P

 

Redeemed not redeemed I'm good either way but his conflicted, sniveling, whiny emo ass killed Han. HE GOTTA DIE! If he dies with "the light" as Ben fine, if he dies still trying to be his grandaddy fine, but in the words of chewie right after he killed Han. "That little punk needs his arse effed up good." (Rough wookie translation).

 

But Vader deserves redemption?

 

Never said he did. Vader was a horrible mass murderer that Kylo could never hope to be as terrible as in his worst dark side wet dreams. If you read my post which was somewhat tongue in cheek. I could care less what side Kylo Ren ends the saga on but the Han Solo fan in me wants him to die.

 

You know this you’re saying here is Reylo, right? At least half of it