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SPOILER Maybe don't read this if you want a big surprise

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Kyle, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. Cmdr. Ed Straker

    Cmdr. Ed Straker Rebel Official

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    These are the posts that I'am glad that not a random fanboy is at the helm of the production. (This is not a attempt to insult the posters, it's just a example)
    I respect your opinions but it would be stupid to have Hayden Christensen in Ep.VII
    Anakins original force ghost was played by Sebastian Shaw who got later replaced with H.C. in a disrespectful and unnecessary change.
    For me, it was a awful try to tie the PT and OT together.
    The age difference between Hamill and Christensen would look weird also, Lukes ghost dad should be older than him.
    Old Luke speaking to his teenager ghost dad is nonsense and bad fan fiction in my opinion.
    Lets bring in Yoda and Obi Wan as younglings to party and why not bring Qui Gon Jinn as a padawan to the party too.

    It doesn't make sense at all, like this garbage here:

    Great Idea, let's bring in more force ghosts, that Luke doesn't know or care for. (and make the ghosts younger too, because they are chic and vain)

    Edit: a pessimistic rating from a moderator? for stating my opinion?
    Like it or not but giving a bad rate for someones opinion is false, it seems that some people have no respect to other peoples opinion.
    (zero tolerance and happy trigger behaviour, what a sad progress these days)
    By the way: "A moderator should play by the book and don't misuse the rating system, it's called: to lead by example".
    If you can't then quit and be a normal member.
     
    #121 Cmdr. Ed Straker, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
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  2. JayBiggS

    JayBiggS Rebel Official

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    At the same time, why let it just grow wild if it doesn't need to be long and you publicly state that you hate having a beard in the first place?

    Some assume he may have scenes where it is long and stinky, and others where he cleans himself up a bit(in a chronological fashion)...maybe for the end scene. Dunno.
     
  3. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    We each interpret in our own way. But I don't see what age should have any impact on a force ghost. It is the spirit. The physical body is gone. I've always assumed they appear however they want to appear.

    I agree that it was an unnecessary change. But it was changed. Its done. I am in no way a fan of Christiansen. And I am definitely not a "crazy fanboy" as you put it. I just think if Hayden was ever to appear in the franchise again, that would probably be the best way for it to be handled. I understand that some fans will be tied to the physical appearance issue. But from inside the SW universe and from keeping with Jedi philosophy, I don't think the physical appearance of a force ghost is by rule restricted to how that beings physical shell appeared at the time of death.
     
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  4. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    Well, personally, I simply don't have an opinion either way. I don't believe there is any "conspiracy" going on, outside of the usual attempts by the filmmakers to lockdown the shoot and related materials during production. Which, more often than not, fails, and stuff eventually gets leaked. History shows this to be the case.
    I do, however, see a lot of this going on:

    MakingStarWars: "I've got some concept art. Here's a description. I've got some other bits of info from my source here too, I'll share it on my blog and attempt to piece it together..."
    Star Wars fans: "Bahaha. You fool. You liar. We don't believe you. JJ Abrams is famous for 'disguising' the plot of his movies with false rumours. You are obviously just a conduit for his false rumours and lies. Disney are controlling everything - no way they would let stuff like this leak. They let it leak on purpose. You are a fool. We are smart - we've worked it out. There is a misdirection campaign surrounding this movie that Disney are co-ordinating."

    The Force Awakens:
    "Here's Mark Hamill growing a beard. Here's Mark Hamill on an island with Daisy Ridley. Here's Mark Hamill with a slightly longer beard at some premier or other. Here's Mark Hamill with a slightly longer beard at Pinewood. Here's Mark Hamill with a decidedly unkempt and overgrown beard at some event."
    Star Wars fans: "Cooooooooool. Mark Hamill."

    Do you see what I mean? Some people seem adamant there is some kind of misdirection campaign going on, yet they never seem to attach that philosophy to anything that actually comes from the people alleged to be misdirecting us.
    In other words - why would Hamill grow a beard through the duration of the shoot, put in lots of public appearances, and complain about the beard?
    Answer: Because there's a huge Disney/Abrams misdirection campaign going on, right?

    Hey, maybe the people discrediting MSW and other sites are the ones working for Disney and trying to mislead us? ;)
     
    #124 Get In Gear, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
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  5. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    Oh yeah Jake Lloyd force ghost, would be nice. people will riot hard! hayden christensensen force ghost controversity will be nothing against it.
    Qui Gon was the first wo learned that technique and tought others too.
    sith dont have force ghost (in G canon), because you need to become one with the force, dark siders are a cancer in the force. that one appearance of Bane was just a vision not an actual force ghost.
     
  6. Cmdr. Ed Straker

    Cmdr. Ed Straker Rebel Official

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    I know this argument, but nonetheless it would be annoying to watch old Luke talking to young Anakin.
    Why should a ghost dad want to appear as a young man and disturb his sixty something son with his young appeareance?
    By the way Christensen had his chance and I have the weird feeling that he was heavy involved in the disrespectful change in RotJ.
    (maybe he begged for the replacement in the ending scene)
    It was not really directed to you both, I meant the bigger context.
    Many fanboys have strange ideas and they would mess up the whole ST if they had the chance.

    Edit: @Max Rebo normally I like your posts and contribution to this side.
     
    #126 Cmdr. Ed Straker, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  7. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    It stands to reason in my mind, if was talking to Luke as a confessional of his sins, to guide him where he failed, he would appear in the form in which he was last good. Before he was corrupted. It works either way honestly (either appearing as the redeemed, the innocent, or even as the guilty in Vader himself). But Sebastian Shaw clearly can't do it. So, if the film makers want Anakin's (not Vader's) force ghost guiding Luke, Hayden is the only option. And from a plot standpoint it works in that i don't think it violates any Jedi principals to have him in any form the director chooses.

    If you think he's annoying or bad, that is a different argument. I agree actually. But I think he could pull off contrite. Anyone could really, its one of the easiest emotions to act. And if that scene was done tastefully and performed adequately, it may soften people on their hatred of his prequel character in that associating him with a superior product could impact your overall judgment of the character.
     
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  8. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    That's the way I've always read it. Anakin appeared for Luke's benefit, to let him know that he had succeeded, that he had saved the father he never had. The context of that scene is that Luke is seeing his father.
    People can argue the pros and cons of Hayden appearing with regards to the "in-universe" implications, the fact is, what works best for the tone and the themes of the film trumps all, and Luke seeing the same guy he spoke to when he removed the mask - his father - is what it is all about for me.

    If I recall correctly, the footage of Hayden that was used for the replacement was not even shot intentionally. It was just a random piece of ROTS footage from the cutting room floor. I'm not sure Hayden even knew much about it. But I may be wrong...
     
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  9. Cmdr. Ed Straker

    Cmdr. Ed Straker Rebel Official

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    You're correct, this is what I see in this scene too.
    By the way I think that Luke would rather talk to Obi Wan or Yoda in the ST and not to his dad.
    The mentors who really taught him and helped him during distress.

    This was my second thought, that George Lucas did it on his own without asking him, I never wanted allege that Christensen did something wrong.
    I had just the suspicion about it, because he begged Lucas to wear the Darth Vader suit in the last scenes of EP.III (I think he was not bulky enough)
     
  10. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    That was Georges thing, look at the clothes.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    Anakin would be involved eventually (I'm not holding my breath for The Force Awakens), but I don't think that they'd pull out the Force Ghosts until the end of the movie, when Luke shows up. Luke is the only character that has canonically seen a Force Ghost, so I'm thinking if they had to pick just one, it would be Yoda.

    Sith cannot have Force Ghosts because they reject the concept of life after death. It's why Palpatine was obsessed with finding the secret to immortality. Only few Jedi with select knowledge of the Force could maintain their consciousness after death. That list includes Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin Skywalker.

    Given that Rian Johnson seems to be a lot more open about appreciating the Prequel Trilogy (comment about not liking Yoda's CGI look aside), I think it's more likely that we'll see Anakin and Obi-Wan there. Ewan McGregor is a sure thing, and I'm thinking that Hayden Christensen could be given another shot under better direction (he's not a bad actor - see Shattered Glass).
     
    #131 Pomojema, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
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  12. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    wasnt there something with Qui gon talking to Anakin in Aotc? In Clone wars, yoda has a conversation with QUi gon. Obi talked to him too.

    I think its qui gons voice.
     
  13. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    As it was explained in the deleted scene

    INT. POLIS MASSA - OBSERVATION DOME - NIGHT

    On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.

    YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is...
    QUI-GON (V.O.): Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.
    YODA: Eternal consciousness.
    QUI-GON (V.O.): The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.

    YODA: ...to become one with the Force, and influence still have... a power greater than all, it is.
    QUI-GON (V.O.): You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of self. No physical self.
    YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I gratefully become.

    YODA thinks about this for a minute, then BAIL ORGANA enters the room and breaks his meditation.

    BAIL ORGANA: Excuse me, Master Yoda. Obi-Wan Kenobi has made contact.


    I think in the novelisations, that was described in the sense that, as Yoda meditated and communicated with the Force, he was surprised to find the Force began to reply through Qui-Gon's voice, so to speak. In AOTC this is kind of hinted at when Qui-Gon's voice is heard as Yoda senses Anakin slaughtering the Tuskens.

    Interestingly, certainly at one point at least, Lucas considered Anakin didn't actually "learn" how to become a ghost for himself, rather Obi-Wan was able to bring him back from the netherworld of the Force after he died. I believe it was mentioned in the Annotated Screenplays book. Although by the time of the OT DVDs Lucas does actually suggest that becoming a ghost was something Anakin was "able to learn" from Obi-Wan, or something along those lines, in the commentary. If I recall correctly...
     
    #133 Get In Gear, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  14. Cmdr. Ed Straker

    Cmdr. Ed Straker Rebel Official

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    Shaw is gone, I know, but if they plan to bring Anakin back, I would cast a actor who has a similar look to Sebastian Shaw.

    I would dislike it even more, because they try to shoehorn things that don't tie well together.

    Edit: is it not funny that we humans have so many different opinions about one thing ;)
    I like the huge amount of varieties, I prefer it this way and it's great for discussions.
    It would be a bland world to live in, if we had all the same opinion, maybe easier but boring.
     
    #134 Cmdr. Ed Straker, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
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  15. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    I would think a new, older, actor would be far more distracting and create many more plot holes than the plausible use of the existing actor who has already played the part. But to each his own.
     
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  16. Cmdr. Ed Straker

    Cmdr. Ed Straker Rebel Official

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    Maybe.
    Thats one of the points, that I don't want to see a Anakin force ghost in the ST.
    Yoda would work the best, but I can see a Alec Guinness CGI too or a Ewan McGregor in heavy make up and mask to look older.
     
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  17. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    I dont care for force ghosts maybe in VIII they have their place to teach them. i just want to see han shooting someone first!
     
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  18. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    Haha. I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye here if you are so set on the age factor you'd rather see creepy cg-Alec Guinness over a young Ewan or Hayden. I think that would be awful. But again, everyone has their preferences.
     
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  19. Cmdr. Ed Straker

    Cmdr. Ed Straker Rebel Official

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    Only, and that is a big only, if it's well done, if not skip the force ghost scene.
    I doubt that a force ghost scene will happen in Ep.VII and if so, it will be with Yoda.

    Edit: Maybe it's good that nobody of us is involved in the production ;)
     
    #139 Cmdr. Ed Straker, Mar 14, 2015
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  20. Cmdr. Ed Straker

    Cmdr. Ed Straker Rebel Official

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    Yeehaw me too.
     
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