SPECULATION OFFICIAL Finn Discussion Thread

Because it was made painfully obvious in this film that he wasn't up to par with the rest of our heroes. Rey is a jedi. Poe pretty much single handedly won the battle at Maz castle. Explain to me how Finn can compare to that.

 

@FN-3263827 He could succeed going forward , i would argue that he did not fail in the first movie. this is an article that i think you would enjoy Hero

 

i don't follow this logic at all. which army? we have Snoke and Kylo Ren. that's what we have at the moment.

he can't fly right now. he doesn't have a command right now. anything can happen now that he's officially with the Resistance. you're asking me to speculate and i could speculate all day and you can counter with things like "being a spy is slow and impossible" or whatever. i don't really see the point since we don't know the plot.

i reiterate: i have faith in the storytellers. i am optimistic Finn will find his place. he's not broken to me, so i don't feel the need to "fix" him as you do.

and just as a further note: i can't really respond in any useful way about what JJ or Kennedy or whoever said about co-leads or roles or any of that. i can really only respond to my experience of the film as i experienced it. i came to it without any of that speculative baggage or expectations, and i loved Finn for himself and don't feel like he was short-changed in any way.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2016 ---

yep! that's the Finn i see and love.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016 ---

you're judging Finn on a scale of "heroism" that i don't agree with or share (philosophically). i have repeatedly expressed why i think Finn is equally heroic.

maybe read the blog post @romall smith posted as it articulates a lot of what i think makes Finn so special: http://blog.thoughtsarise.com/2016/01/finn-of-force-awakens-hero-for-our-times_11.html

 

The knights of ren would be the other force users.

Also i think we are on the same side of the fence with finn. i don't feel he is a broken character at all. I saw force potential in him with scenes like the hosnian destruction. However that didn't make the character for me. The fact that he could have been anyone one of us did. His possible FS and not being tied to a special blood line just adds to the overall great character.

If we aren't speculating on future plot points then we discuss current differences of opinion on some off these topics

• Did TFA set up finn and rey for a romantic connection?
• His actually related to kylo ren? (it is possible sana solo is a thing now)
• Does his top 1% skill mean he will be a force user? ( all others in that category from the canon are)
• Did Kylo sense he would betray the order or was it something more?
• Was he the only on tohear the Tie fighters before they struck?
• Did he hear the cries of the hosnian system?
  
• Is he on the Hero's journey? if so would it be campbells first act
  1. The Call to Adventure
  2. Refusal of the Call
  3. Supernatural Aid
  4. Crossing the Threshold
  5. Belly of the Whale
  
• If he is not on the hero's journey is he following the fools errand?
• Why does ever other character (even chewbacca) have a journal or book coming out before the next movie, but Finn?

 

And see this as where we disagree. There is no argument in the noble intentions of finn (At least from me). Those noble intentions end up with him being beaten into a coma. He needs power and capability to affect the world around him. What good is wanting to protect something when you don't have the power to do so. It's sentiment. Finn didn't actually save any villagers. All we saw was his feelings on the matter. Now that I think about finn doesn't save anybody. And don't say poe. Finn got them shot down and thought poe was dead. The script saves poe.

 

Snoke? is that you?

yes: we fundamentally disagree on what a hero is and what makes a character awesome. that's okay. difference is the spice of life.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2016 ---

oh, the Ren cats. yeah, i'm on the fence whether they are FS or not. i don't care either way, but right now i don't see it. have zero support to base that on, just a gut reaction.

that's a lot of great questions; all worth discussion! my quickie answers:

• No (and that's okay).
  
• No (can't see them introducing more offspring into this).
  
• No (i think i've clarified my position on this)
  
• Yes and No ~ this was discussed at length just a couple of pages back.
  
• Don't know ~ probably no. highly likely he'd be the first to recognize the sound, though, being FO and all.
  
• No (i think he heard the hubbub and joined it)
  
• YES (i think we're at the Supernatural aid part ~ what that means, i have no idea, but he's seriously wounded, so something miraculous may happen).
  
• No
  
• I don't know because I don't know anything about the tie-in stuff. could still be in production? he was included in the Journey book and i bought a cool kid's picture book that was about him defecting (ha).

 

So I'm curious. Where do you see his story going.

 

you keep asking me that and i keep trying to tell you: i don't know. i'm open the wherever the storytellers want to take us.

• i can see him becoming the "Big Deal" in the Resistance that he was pretending to be in TFA
• i can see him swooping in to save Rey from the next time she encounters Kylo Ren (she won't beat him a second time)
  
• i can see him teaming up with Poe to lay waste to the FO
• i can see him inspiring and leading an FO rebellion

so many possibilities. like with Rey, TFA is just his first steps.

 

• Did TFA set up finn and rey for a romantic connection?
  I would say the movie made them close but the book sets the course
• His actually related to kylo ren? (it is possible sana solo is a thing now)
  i do't think he is but you gotta admit that would be a helluva twist
• Does his top 1% skill mean he will be a force user? ( all others in that category from the canon are)
  rebels and the books say that is a trait of FS individuals. if its not the case for him why even mention it?
• Did Kylo sense he would betray the order or was it something more?
  I think this one will be debated indefinitely, even if he is FS
• Was he the only on to hear the Tie fighters before they struck?
  In the movie Rey looks around confused, In the
  Spoiler: Book

  Behind them, BB-8 was quivering slightly. Both antennae were fully extended and inclined slightly eastward. Rey frowned at the droid. “Are you okay?”
  
  While Finn’s sensory equipment was less sensitive than the droid’s, it was no less sophisticated. Man and machine were both listening to something that escaped the girl. Puzzled, she shifted her attention from one to the other.
  
  “What is it? What’s going on? I don’t hear anyth—”
  
  Finn shushed her with a gesture, listening intently. She started to object, thought better of it and went quiet. Behind him, BB-8 was growing increasingly agitated. Without a word, the droid spun and raced toward the rear of the storage area. Finn responded almost as quickly, grabbing Rey’s hand and pulling her after him.
• Did he hear the cries of the hosnian system?
  If finn is supposed to be us then we experience as he does so unless its an editing error he hears the cries and explosion. also he would have no idea it was the weapon since it has never been fired he would not know what it looked or sounded like, nor did he know that hux just decided to fire it.
• Is he on the Hero's journey? if so would it be campbells first act
  1. The Call to Adventure
  Asked to join the fight with rey at maz's castle
  2. Refusal of the Call
  tries to run to the outer rim
  3. Supernatural Aid
  maz forces the saber on him
  4. Crossing the Threshold
  he uses the lightsaber (weapon of legend and myth to him)
  5. Belly of the Whale
  He loses a fight that puts him in a coma. "The hero, instead of conquering or conciliating the power of the threshold, is swallowed into the unknown and would appear to have died. "
• If he is not on the hero's journey is he following the fools errand?
  we won't know until we see if he starts the act 2 of a hero's journey or if his story back slides
• Why does ever other character (even chewbacca) have a journal or book coming out before the next movie, but Finn?
  I would wager that its cause his story is not about his past but his future so they can't give us books till the trilogy continues

You take the Big deal statement as foreshadowing but not the lets use the force statement? I am guessing you are a fan of the rest of the starwars galaxy minus the jedi. Highly recommend reading lost stars you will enjoy it.

 

Maybe it's me. I just find Finn so uninspiring at current. And any plotlines besides FS ones just seem ultimately secondary.

 

i like your breakdown of the hero's journey for Finn. i'm thinking of it stretching over the trilogy, but your arc for within TFA makes perfect sense.

i don't take the "Big Deal" statement as foreshadowing, not in the prophetic sense. and i admit i dismiss the "We'll use the Force" statement because it's played to set up a laugh and i don't see it functioning beyond that (i know i laugh every time Han responds to it). in terms of Finn's character in that moment, i take it as a show of his earnestness. it's the one moment we see that he's kind of a newly hatched chick insofar as not really understanding how the world works.

i'm curious about the point about the TIE fighters. the book seems to confirm that BB-8 hears it too, no?

 

Let me write one up for you.
Using his cyberneticly enhanced strength, Expert marksmanship and world class leadership Finn takes command of a special ops unit. His team combined with Poe's squadron lead a mission to a secret first order weapon facility. They learn of a new weapon that could threaten to tip the scales of the war. Now they go on a quest to steal the weapon. Along the way rey joins the fight or finn and poe divert the mission because they find out she is in danger. Could be cooler as a force user but thats the kind of story you are looking at with no FS.

That part is funny lol, Yea BB-8 picks up on it as well However he is a bot. It establishes earlier in the book he can pick up the FO landing graft just after it hit the atmosphere. We as the audience hear it just like the hosnian system. There is much more to his story than you can get with just the movie or with just a couple of viewings. yea that part of the journey is just for the first act. the second act of a true hero story is quite different im curious to see how they do it.

6. The Road of Trials
The road of trials is a series of tests that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes.
7. The Meeting with the Goddess
This is a very important step in the process and is often represented by the person finding the other person that he or she loves most completely
8. Woman as Temptress
In this step, the hero faces those temptations, often of a physical or pleasurable nature, that may lead him or her to abandon or stray from his or her quest, which does not necessarily have to be represented by a woman.
9. Atonement with the Father
In this step the person must confront and be initiated by whatever holds the ultimate power in his or her life. In many myths and stories this is the father, or a father figure who has life and death power. This is the center point of the journey. All the previous steps have been moving into this place, all that follow will move out from it. Although this step is most frequently symbolized by an encounter with a male entity, it does not have to be a male; just someone or thing with incredible power.
10. Apotheosis
A more mundane way of looking at this step is that it is a period of rest, peace and fulfillment before the hero begins the return.
11. The Ultimate Boon
The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.

 

We don't know why Finn was treated so poorly in the film. This does not mean this person is wrong.

 

I don't think he's wrong per sw but his ideas are so out-there and in my eyes it seems almost racist from his end and Finn wasn't treated poorly in the film z

 

You think this person can be racist but not the film writers? How was Finn not treated poorly he did nothing important. you could easily take him out.

 

Well maybe the film makers didn't realize it initially and, as someone said recently, the whole janitor thing was a joke in the movie but this author makes it look like they made him a "janitor" because he's black .

 

F

Finn is probably the most disrespected lead I have seen in a action/adventure movie.

 

Why "disrespected" ?

 

His charcter is the male lead. He loses every fight he's in. Even the fight that doesn't directly alter the plot. Fails to save villagers, fails saving poe, Rey saves herself and him. Tries saving rey again and gets beat into a coma. All the jokes at his exspense. He was basically Shia lebouf from transformers just with a more likable actor. At least Shia pulled some game and hooked up with Megan Fox. Finn goes back for this girl he's known all of 3 days to save her from mass murdering fascists and evil space wizards. Aww that's cute they hug. Stare down death in the face and get beat into a coma by kinslayer. Look she really likes her friend.

 

that could be awesome! sure!

this is interesting (it's been a long time since i studied/taught Campbell). i was thinking a much simpler variation, but i can see how these pieces can all still work. not as a literal checklist necessarily, but all the pieces to complete the circle, certainly.

note: i see the thread has devolved into pessimism again. sigh.

edit: aaaaand i get rated pessimistic even though i had the courtesy to not rate other people pessimistic. thanks!