Official Finn Episode VIII thread

Various questions addressed to Pablo Hidalgo (author of The Force Awakens Visual Dictionary, Creative Executive Lucasfilm Story Group) over the past couple of months about The Force Awakens. Sometimes he ignores questions altogether, like so far the repeated questions about Leia's ring in the film.

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On lightsaber usage

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Maz's Castle

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The awakening of the Force

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(more about the awakening from: Lucasfilm, new book by Elizabeth Schaefer)

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Perhaps you may be right, although what you mention might have been too hard for the average movie goer to see.

I believe story arc wise, a vulnerable Finn without any sort of power is much more film poignant emotionally than two FS's that become Jedi's. I believe Poe may be one and not Finn, as Poe grew up living next door to a force tree, one of two given by Luke to his mother.

 

Boyega definitely showed his craft in the film. However had very little of the trappings afforded to male leads in action space drama. Being a lead in a saga which is guaranteed at least 2 more films, they have time to develop an arc which will show growth. A lead dueling twice with a lightsaber still looking for a first win screams of more lightsaber action for Finn... perhaps this time with the Force.

I don't know if the masses will be interested in Finn the regular Joe finding Ma and Pa (John hinted at his parents being eventually revealed). For it to be compelling on film, there has to be more to his parents or more to him, or both.

It is also possible that Poe is FS I agree, but remember his character originally was slated to to be killed on Jakku. Was the Force tree written in after JJ called him back to set? Either way it wouldn't surprise me. This is about the resurgence of the Jedi... a thing Snoke fears. Rey, Finn, and Poe can approach their use of the Force in different and interesting ways.

 

Lol I really love the post about finn being the second reveal. The one they actually decide to take their time with and build up.

 

I just prefer that he not be FS. I mean I wouldn't complain if he was, but I'd prefer not. One I love "awesome normal" in these types of stories. Han was one, Lando was one, even Jango Fett (his lame death aside) was one. Two, I just find the idea that he HAS to be FS or a Jedi in order to be worthwhile to be one that I don't agree with. And three, it'd just be boring if ALL of the leads had to be FS imo, variety is good.

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, and he sold me on the idea that Finn not being FS, but still being able to wield a lightsaber with proficiency, could be cool (since the new canon has started to introduce that idea).

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 12, 2016 ---

I actually don't remember Kylo ever saying "it is you" in the film. The whole line about the "awakening" is there, but I've seen the film five times and I still didn't catch the other one (if it is there).

 

It"s not in the film, but in the Alan Dean Foster novelization. Kylo Ren does say it but the interesting part is the way it's intoned. "It is you"

 

He will be a force user:

• Who is his primary antagonist? Kylo Ren
  
• Who will he train with? With Luke and Rey

• What Luke Skywalker ESB moment do you want for the character? He will have to fight Kylo Ren to save Jessika
• What kind of darker themed story can you imagine for him?The majority of the Resistance does not trust him he will have to gain there trust

• When do you think he will have his Rematch? He will fight with Kylo Ren to save Jessika
  
• When do you think his cybernetics will play into the story?No

• Where do you see the battle of Light and Dark taking him?he will be a Ashoka type Jedi
  
• Where do you want to see the character display his powers?Saving a Resistance solider from death

• Why do you feel the character is worth 40% of the screen time? This movie will be about Finn so yes
  
• Why do you think he will or won't be a Jedi?He will because he has marital art training

• How do you think his lineage comes into play? Does it matter? Yes he will be a Windu
  
• How do you feel the darker themed story will effect him?Yes it will make him question which side is good and bad

 

I understand where I didn't express myself correctly. I meant, if there was to be a 2nd FS, I would have made Poe the one and not FN2187.

Finn was too obvious a choice, as he was used in massive marketing misdirection to hide the fact that Rey was the FS one all along. He was the one with the saber from the beginning (on the posters, trailers etc..). Poe on the other hand is the "best damn pilot in the whole galaxy", grew up near a force tree and knows about the force since he accepts it when spoken to him by San Tekka. Although it begs the question, due his age, on why he hasn't figured it out yet, IF he's a FS.

For many of those reasons, I believe Rey will be the Jedi and everyone else around her will be in Resistance leadership, support, and of course, it wouldn't be a new trilogy without them being in all kinds of danger, haha.

 

I think your quotes sum up the essence of Finn quite nicely:

"I like Empire Strikes Back. That’s my favorite. Reason being because it’s just the best, hands down. Everybody knows that. My favorite character is Han Solo, because I really like characters who represent human beings in sci-fi pics…There’s this more human, more like “chilled” approach to everything, and these characters remind the audience of themselves. Those are the characters that I feel are much more loved than the others, because they run when we would run, they are brave when we would feel brave, and they’re…a reflection of humanity." - John Boyega Rocketnews24 interview Dec 23 2015

"Boyega plays Finn, who quits being a First Order Stormtrooper and decides to seek a more peaceful life. However, he gets caught up in an adventure with Rey and the new droid — and rolypoly holiday gift sensation — BB-8. Boyega compares Finn to Han Solo, the rogue smuggler played by Harrison Ford, who started out as a pilot-for-hire, but eventually became a general in the Rebel Alliance.

“Finn is us. He doesn’t have his path handed to him. He doesn’t have his destiny spoken of in a distant prophecy,” Boyega said. “He is the everyman, and it’s like, who would everybody really be in a ‘Star Wars’ movie? People who say Luke Skywalker, they’re lying.” - WSJ interview Dec 15 2015

Look, I realize that there must be another Episode VIII Finn thread. But once again the thread is set up (by means of the poll) in such away that any discussion will solely focus on the question whether Finn is force sensitive or not and whether or not his character stands in an unequal hierarchy with Rey. It's sympathetic and the idea behind it is friendly but can't we simply come up with a topic concerning Finn which does not include constant bickering about whether he has the force or not. I really think that reducing each observation or expectation about Finn to his possible use of the force or not is really starting to become repititive. Your questions are also very good and important. It would be a shame if all those questions are ignored and the thread solely revolves around "Will Finn have the Force?" and "Will Finn be a Jedi?"

John Boyega knows where the story is going, there is a reason he is defending his character, he himself feels that the force/no force discussion really is irrelevant. He tells us that not only the Force sensitive Skywalkers can be the heart of a Star Wars story. And he is absolutely right.

What I would like to know about Finn are questions revolving around his emotions, choices, personality, morality and belonging. That's what I would like to talk about but neither the original Finn thread nor this one seems to leave room for that. I want to know how Finn's character will develop, what his inner conflict is and how this conflict will play out in VIII and IX. I want to know whether he still identifies with the First Order to some extent and whether or not he really identifies with the resistance. I want to know whether his friendship with Rey will come under pressure in one way or the other. So what I want is not speak about him like he is some sort of action hero but speak about his possible story.

So your questions:

Questions That Need Answered

• Who is his primary antagonist?
  Phasma and Kylo Ren and a character which will possibly betray him VIII. There might even be a possibility that at some point Rey for a moment will be his antagonist
  
  
• Who will be his primary companion?
  His preferred Rey, his likely companion in VIII Poe

• What kind of darker themed story can you imagine for him?
  Issues which will test his morality and friendship with other people. Moral choices which will bring him into conflict over his previous place of belonging "The First Order" and his new belonging with the resistance and Rey. He will also be presented with the reality of what it means to fight a war of survival and what choices are required to do so.
  
  
• What Han Solo ESB moment do you want for the character
  None, I want Finn to be Finn, not something derivative.

• When do think he will encounter the last of his unit?
  Something has changed in the stormtrooper corps. They are better trained but less dedicated to the cause it seems and less likely to sacrifice themselves in nonesense actions. I really believe Finn will incite desertion in the stormtrooper corps. Some troopers will definitely follow his example. He was the best warrior, he might also become their moral example. It would also be a nice redemption arc for the white clad warriors we all love and despise at the same time.Perhaps Finn will even pretend to go back to the first order only to incite insurrection. It would be pretty well done if the audience does not really know if Finn really goes back to the First Order or that he is only there for this specific purpose.
  
  
• When do you believe he will understand what the force is?
  He understands it. He is not an idiot. He learned it the hard way, but he has also seen that the true nature of the force lies in one's moral choice for good or evil.

• Where do you see his adventure taking him?
  To the battlefield, to the army camps of the first order, to exotic new places to meet up with Luke and Rey and fight the First Order. Perhaps even to his original homeworld from where he'd been kidnapped and drafted into the army. He might even liberate his homeplanet.
  
  
• Where do you think his cybernetics will play into the story ?
  Aesthetically perhaps, but nothing fundamental.

• Why do you feel the character is worth 40% of the screen time?
  Did he have 40%, then Rey had 40%. Both had the same amount of screentime and that will likely continue in the next movie. His story is the classical moral parcival/david vs goliath heroes journey. It does not revolve around access to the force, but around Finn's inner conflict and personality. Finn is the audience, we don't have special powers, but that does not mean that we are unimportant. Arthur had Excalibur, but Parcival found the grail.
  
  
• Why do you think he will or won't command troops in the republic?
  Republic troops and stormtroopers. I would really like to see General Finn. No one knows as much about the First Order as Finn does.

• How do you think his former life will effect others around him?
  Stormtroopers will defect. Finn's moral choices wil be important in both a positive and negative fashion
  
  
• How do you want to see the character handled going forward.
  above
  
  
• Who will he train with?
  Poe
  
  
• What Luke Skywalker ESB moment do you want for the character
  Finn is Finn, let Finn do things Finn does, let him have his own moments.
  
  
• When do you think he will have his Rematch?
  With whom. Kylo Ren. IX in one way or the other. Possibly not even direct. He will confront Phasma. I don't really think a rematch is that important. He stood for what he believed in and payed the ultimate price even though he knew he could not win. That's a martyr, a true hero.
  
  
• Where do you see the battle of Light and Dark taking him?
  Home
  
  
• Where do you want to see the character display his powers?
  No force powers. Emotional and physical powers yes.
  
  
• Why do you think he will or won't be a Jedi?
  For the story to function it requires the contrast between Rey and Finn. Rey represents the Force in extremis, Finn represents humanity in extremis. Both are interdependent for the story to work. Force powers are simply redundant. They neither add anything or take away something from his character. For Rey it is fundamental to have force powers because they revealed something about her true lineage. It's a Skywalker trope in the saga movies.
  
  
• How do you think his lineage comes into play? Does it matter?
  He will return to his homeworld, witness the effects of the first order on his people, and fight to free his people from bondage and slavery. He will do the same with the stormtrooper corps because the corps and his original homeworld/people are interrelated. The stormtroopers, like his people, are in a state of bondage and slavery to a system they didn't choose. Finn will contribute in extreme and ultimate fashion to Maz's "The only fight".
  
  
• How do you feel the darker themed story will effect him?
  It will question his morals and sense of belonging and test his friendship with the ones he cares for. Just as in any other heroes journey.
  
  
• When in the movie would it happen (Finn dies)?
  IX, and Rey will use the power of the light, love and empathy, to bring him back from the dead, and in doing so Rey will be brought back to the light. Disney can hunt me now.
  
  
• Where do you think he dies?
  Somewhere in the vicinity of Snoke
  
  
• What would be the point in killing him off?
  Rey will use the power of the light, love and empathy, to bring him back from the dead, and in doing so Rey will be brought back to the light. Disney can hunt me now. It will show the fallacy of the dark and twisted powers of Snoke and Kylo Ren. They seek immortality and try to cheat death by means of the dark side, Rey will achieve that which the saga has been building towards by means of the light.
  
  
  As you can see, I picked some choices from all the different querries.

 

I can't imagine him being a general. Id like to see him more as ground soilder. He is basically their official guide to the first order.

 

Well that's true, he neither needs to be a general or force sensitive to do this:

 

The answer is simple my friends. Some people fear it would take away from Rey. Fear leads to anger. Some people were angry about Finn being a Jedi and a ST. Anger leads to hate. Some people hated the possibility of Finn being a Jedi and a ST; they actually tried to boycott the movie. Hate leads to suffering. Now we all have to suffer with this FS Finn VS non FS Finn debate until Episode 8 is release. Suffering leads to the dark side lol !

 

There are many people who don't see Finn's potential for FS to be obvious. They are pretty much convinced of the fact that he isn't. Some would argue that the things viewed in the trailers and during TFA are hints. Hints you feel are obvious, but hints others don't see as valid at all (Luke's remote, the Hosnian System, etc.).

I believe it's very possible for Poe to be FS, perhaps that helps his piloting skills, but he already has his niche. Rey has her's as a Force using warrior (perhaps soon to be Jedi) and pilot. Finn, the 1B to Rey's 1A is on the verge of his, but does not yet have one. The TFA has whet the appetites of fans who want to see Finn reach his potential. He's had two lightsaber battles... I can't picture TPTB not expanding on this in the future films.

Again Snoke is concerned about the rising Jedi (I'm really thinking he's using the word in its plural form). I don't think Rey will be the only main character to use the Force. The rule of two is a Sith thing, I don't see Luke and Rey being the sole Jedi going into Ep. 9 and I think peppering a training area with 'Jedi extras' screams of some of the mistakes made by Lucas in the PTs. It's way too impersonal.

 

Well that condensces the discussion. Wait my turn: some people fear that Finn is not force sensitive, fear leads to anger. Some people were angry about Finn not being a jedi or force sensitive, anger leads to hate. Some people hated the movie and Finn's character because he didn't have the force and called it racist because it is self-evident that a British guy whose father is from Nigeria needs to have the force. Hate leads to suffering. And yes we all suffer from both extremes until Episode 8. Suffering leads to the darkside

 

Finn is the most heroic character in the whole of TFA. more heroic than Rey, Poe, or even Han (and Han is pretty dang heroic).

i wish people could appreciate that as more critical and more compelling than whether he gets magical space powers.

 

Finn wasn't poorly conceived or portrayed so we don't have to worry about a placeholder character with magical space powers. His desire to protect Rey against a dark force wielder with a lightsaber despite the odds was inspiring. So there are some of us who appreciate what he's accomplished so far and wishes for this hero to become more than he thought possible.

 

No one argues that Finn isn't heroic, what people do argue is that Finn needs an extra something to stand out and a "win" moment. Rey's Force Sensitive and had the wins of turning Kylo's mind probe back on him and beating him in the forest. Poe has the moment of destroying multiple TIE fighters during the battle of Maz's palace and of destroying the Starkiller Base. What does Finn have in the movie that's an unmistakable moment of triumph for him like the other two people? The answer imo is that he doesn't have one. His greatest moment of heroism is standing up to Kylo and getting absolutely wrecked by him to serve as motivation for Rey. I mean it's great that he drives the story and manages to stand up to an evil regime, but this series is called "Star Wars" for a reason. The average moviegoer doesn't care about how hard it would be to say no to evil in real life, they just care about who's the biggest badass and Finn is squarely at the bottom of that list.

And so when I see people insisting that Finn should remain his useless everyman self so he can retain the human element in the story of Rey and Poe's greatness, I can't help but connect it to the people that were angry that Finn might be a Jedi. The fantasy stories I've always found the most interesting isn't about a chosen one who was prophesied to save everyone, like it looks like Rey's shaping up to be, but about the guy who comes from no notable lineage and slowly through hard work and dedication slowly turns into a great hero.

Rey's a great character, but this will be the third trilogy that revolves around a Jedi Jesus from a backwater desert planet. Don't people want to see something else? Kathleen could've at least made Rey a street urchin on some huge planet-spanning city.

 

^^ Exactly. The type of everyman I've been reading from some (not all) posters is more appropriate for supporting cast members, not a 1B lead character.