Official Finn Episode VIII thread

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that the point of Finn's character is that he grows from a weak/incompetent character into a badass/powerful character or that he's meant to be the weak underdog throughout the trilogy?

Yes, this.

 

I agree with this. It just seems kind of strange to me that people keep saying he's a great character but they seem to want to all but remove him from the main plot so they can have the Luke and Rey Jedi Chronicles. Finn is the CO-Lead he's just as important to the plot as Rey and Luke is a supporting character. To quote John Boyega, Finn himself "Get used to it."

 

In fairness I do think the proponents think that Finn's stormtrooper liberation plot line would be of equal importance to Rey and Luke's Jedi Chronicles but I personally disagree. Not because it is a poorly conceived theory or one that doesn't make sense but simply because it would deprive me of my space war by crippling the FO machine from the inside and I'm just not interested in that.

I WANT MY SPACE WAR *ahem* I want my space war.

 

He's the CO-Lead. So you don't want him to have the force because you think it somehow takes away from Rey? Finn is not a mediocre stormtrooper he ranked in the top 1% of his class in all of his training. He was also the leader of his unit. The whole sanitation gig was something that all of the stormtroopers were required to do,it's not like it was his day job. This is all explained in the book Before the Awakening which is canon.

 

Good points. Or you could flip it around and ask why have Rey. Since Luke is already a Jedi Master and an iconic character, being the original main character and all, wouldn't he overshadow Rey?

 

This could still work if Finn was non force sensitive. But I think it works best if he is.

It's like if back in the OT Luke failed and ultimately turned to the darkside. Yoda explained how there was another (that being Leia).
Leia would have to be the one to step up and redeem or kill her brother.

The same can be applied here with Finn and Rey. Considering how quickly Rey seems to be understanding the ways of the force, how long until she starts tampering with the darkside...
You build up Finn as this unlikely hero, and have him confront Rey come ep IX.

The main problem here is that we would be leaving out characters like Snoke and Kylo.

 

...unless this goes down some Revan and Bastila Shan path.

 

Lol, hilarious, but this, so much this...just hilariously put tho. I can't stop laughing.

Edited to add:

In regards to everything else tho, to be honest, I do think people have to come to terms with the fact that you probably won't see a non-FS character vs a FS character as a final confrontation battle in the storyline. And ultimately, putting Finn anywhere but the main confrontation or, at least, one of the main confrontations regulates him as anything but co-lead. As co-lead, he would have to be facing off with the main bad guy alongside Rey (or other co-leads) like he did in TFA, although from a perspective of tag teaming. (I'll take him first while you recuperate type of thing since she was unconscious after being thrown into a tree). Or his confrontation with his own main bad-guy occurs alongside hers or other co-leads. This latter one runs the potential of regulating him to the position of less importance as well. To be fair, so did the former as evident by debates here and the interpretation some fans utilized to place in the position of less importance (comedy relief, sidekick, etc.) which eventually evolved (and not for all) to wanting to continue to place him the position of less importance (it'd be nice to match him up with a cool, but less important teammate and have him go on sort of a side quest while we get, as Just Passing Through hilariously coined, "Rey and Luck Jedi Chronicles" as the main storyline.

Plus, I don't really see, as I've argued before in the old Finn thread, why making him FS could not work with a Storm Trooper rebellion storyline. Maybe it's because how some people want that to play out...with him reinfiltrating the FO in order to tear it down from within. My contention with this is that I don't foresee based on the characterization of Finn so far, that happening in Episode VIII. I could see that happening in between Episodes 8 and 9 in Expanded Universe material after Finn has some growth as a hero emotionally, idealistically and such. Plus as Just Passing Through says:

"I WANT MY SPACE WAR!"

 

The problem I'm having though is that it has already been established that Kylo has some sort of "compassion" for Rey. So if this theory is to ever take off, they will have to conclude that part of Kylo's story or else things will feel inconsistent (if that makes any sense).

Well one of them will have to take up the role as Malak. So either Snoke or Kylo will have to die. Unless they both become Malak and have their fates intertwined.

 

eh...not necessarily. it would already have to be a really loose adaptation to begin with.

either way i'm all for whatever kills Snokie-poke.

 

How could Snoke become Revan, maybe Kylo (relatively speaking) since he was relatively a "Jedi in training" but I'm not so sure about Snoke?
Plus, considering Revan was a game character in which one could play light or dark side, it's not set in stone as to whether Revan should be a full-fledged dark sider or not. I know he had his time as a "Sith lord" with Malak, but the character could make the choice to make him return good or stay the evil course after his mind wipe.

Also:

Since I've mostly used the novel (and script) to skim and find quotations when people use them as "proof text" for arguments against Finn, I could've missed any mention of this, but if this is purely from a theatrical perspective...where has it "already been established" that Kylo has some sort of compassion for Rey? I'll add beyond wanting to seduce her to the dark side?

Is this born out of the assumption he and Rey are related or other assumptions? Just curious.

 

Kylo Ren = Revan-like (similar Light/Dark personality characteristics, hey: even similar masks)
Rey = Bastila Shan-like (potentially similar story arc if she gets stockholmed by Snoke and goes Dark)

the comparison is not meant to be literal. Ben Solo isn't Jacen from the EU, but he's now Han Solo's canon Dark side son.

this keeps coming up, so here it is from the horse's mouth:



and yes, Kylo Ren denies it. just like he denies that Han Solo means anything to him. Kylo Ren is a terrible liar and Snoke knows it.

 

the droid? hahaha

i'm guessing Finn would be whoever it was that was sent to rescue Bastila Shan, no?
i have no idea. i don't actually know the story very well.

 

I was considering all media that is considered canon as opposed to just the movie. I suppose that it's debatable whether Kylo truly has compassion for Rey. Either way, my point was that there are still some loose ends to Kylo's story, and ending it abruptly come ep.8 will just leave people scratching their heads.

And no, I didn't put their relation into consideration. However, it would make his compassion for her more credible.

careful now...

 

This does look familiar, still tho, your last sentence is key for context in these situations and I do hope you take into account certain context. Like Luke being early in his training, both with the force and with a light saber.

Plus, I'm not saying it's impossible overall, I'm just saying it more than likely will not happen at the tail end of a movie for a variety of reasons. Edited to add: Ok, after reviewing my own statements. In my original post I said storyline, but I was thinking movie when I wrote that. Sorry for any confusion on my part.

Nah, I wasn't coming at it from a literal perspective. Even with your break down, Revan is still a character whose ultimate destiny is in the hands of a player. This is what, from my observations, has made it hard for him to be placed in major canon although there have been loose mentions in passing here and there. To be fair tho, KOTOR, has regulated him to Dark Side, but then again KOTOR is no longer official canon so they can do what they want thus far as part of the legendary era of the SW franchise.

There are superficial comparisons to Bastila with Rey, but we don't really know enough about Rey to go there. I guess that's my overall point.

Even from a loose comparison, there's not enough real evidence to do so.

Fair enough, thanks for helping me find a point of reference. Now that I've read it in context, I'm not so certain this can be interpreted in a way that Kylo wouldn't do anything. It's possible he will considering he wants to be both like and better than Vader. Vader gave into his compassion for his son. Assuming, and I'll add greatly assuming, that Kylo and Rey are related as Skywalkers...that's likely to make Kylo purposefully go against his "weakness" as Snoke called it just as he went against the "weakness" by cutting down his father. Still tho, the compassion here could just be Ren trying to deny his natural affinity towards being a compassionate person for others.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 16, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 16, 2016 ---

I was asking more so out of a point of reference for the compassion statement, but overall I agree about Ren. His story should not and probably won't end in episode VIII.

Ultimately tho, we should probably discuss Ren, Snoke and Rey in their respective threads and let the Finn discussion continue here.