SPECULATION OFFICIAL Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

Just as many syllables as Obi-Wan or Anakin.

 

I am liking OP's post because I agree that it may be accurate, but I don't have to like it! For Darth Driver to be a Solo smacks too much of Jacen/Jaina and Darth Caedus, which I didn't like in the EU either.

 

If the Kylo Ren character is reduced to the Maul role (which I doubt), then I'll be very disappointed. Maul was a throwaway character, plain and simple. Any one of the actors speculated to play the part of Ren; from Driver to Christie to Gleeson; would run rings around Ray Park acting-wise(no offense) and would be wasted talent if relegated to a role such as Maul's.

Apart from the Podrace, the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon/Maul duel was one of the most inspired moments of the entire PT, at least IMHO. But the power of the fight, as well as Qui-Gon's death at Maul's hands, is greatly diminished by Maul's own, impossibly stupid death minutes later.

Dooku was a far more interesting character and had, even with as little screen time as he's actually given, a far more fleshed out backstory. But due to Christopher Lee's age, there was simply no way he could top Maul's flash as far as fanboys are/were concerned. But to me, that's all Maul really was/is, a flashy character with a flashy lightsaber, who's arc ended far too abruptly to merit the love he gets.

"Darth Maul is a badass!" No, Darth Maul is an under-developed character who's only purpose was to kill Qui-Gon; in another of GL's convoluted story telling devices to bring Anakin to the fore front; and to die and make way for the next throwaway henchman.

 

I think that Maul was setup to fail as a character in multiple ways. Sure he made lucasfilm a boat load of money because he looked so cool and had the new flashy lightsaber. The problem was the villain of the prequel trilogy HAD to be Palpatine. It was already written in stone. Sure they could have extended Mauls role into episode 2 but they shot themselves in the foot because they cast Ray Park as Darth Maul. It was all flash over function. Ray Park is a good guy to have around to do cool action sequences etc. Casting Adam Driver or any of the other actors we know have been cast and putting them in this role is already a win for us fans who want a visually interesting villain who can develop and have depth. You don't cast legit actors to play the "main" villains lacky simply because they expect to be paid for what they do and to do what they do. Act.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Abrams and company made a list of things that failed about about the PT and at all costs intend to avoid those situations. The fact that we know a lot of the props and sets were physically constructed or shot at actual locations already seems like a great start.

 

I have a tendency to say Obi with almost one syllable but I see your point. Obi-Wan also flows better than Kylo Ren in my opinion, but that's all a matter of taste. Anakin is excluded from this discussion because he doesn't have a hyphenated name haha

 

I agree to a point but where you find fault I am see something that they were trying to tell you that is relevant to the story.

Maul's death was due to his overconfidence. For all of his menace and flash he was merely an attack dog. He was underdeveloped as an apprentice too. Sidious' exploitation of both Maul and Dooku showed that they were disposable to him. So I think there some truth to the fact the were throwaways but not as proof of GL underdeveloped character development but of Palpatine's depraved nature.

That said if I was going to fix the issue I would leave Maul in place I would make him someone Qui Gon Jin knows his now fallen master Count Dooku. Considering Benito Del Toro was supposed to be Darth Maul but he was annoyed some of his lines were reduced and departed the production (that was the rumor). The fight ends just as it did. Perhaps even a tease for ROTS where Del Toro's Maul taunts Obi-Wan give up now I have the high ground but Obi-wan pulls just as before. This would leave spider leg Maul set to return in AOTC (I was so happy when I saw spider legged Maul in TCW cause I remember thinking that they would bring Maul back and I hoped as a half spider, giving him legs again was a HUGE design mistake). AOTC clones ends and ROTS begins but rather than the terrifying General Grievious it is still MAUL no need of Grievous. Maul gets killed and the Emp gets a new Apprentice.

 

Well there wasnt really a protagonist or a villain in TPM IMHO.....

Main protagonist - anyone from Anakin, Obi-wan Qui-gon...
Main villain - anyone from Darth Maul, Palpatine, Gunray....

Which was part of the problem with the TPM, nobody to root for and no real bad guy...a lot of trade negotiation issues though.

Maul may have been marketed heavily but he kicked the bucket in the first film, so was never going to be the main bad guy, he was a supporting character at best and had little screen time and was chronically underdeveloped.

I still dont think Kylo Ren will be the main villain, reckon hes a key character but not the main bad guy, still think they have something else up their sleeves for TFA.

 

He will be a wannabe Dragon like Vader was the Dragon to Palpatine.

At first he will be nothing more than a Sith fanboy but if the theories are true of Luke nearly but not actually killing him at the end of VII then he will later develop into an actual threat and may try to overthrow the Big Bad who appears right now to be who Serkis plays.

 

Another tweet from G@brielGr@y has pretty much changed my mind on who Kylo Ren is......money now on Driver.

No idea what his tweet was in reference to the TFA trailer re: Christie, but looks like he wasnt referring to Kylo Ren....I wonder if the igniting of the lightsabre was a scene peior to GC coming on screen which would make aome sense if she hunts Jedi....

Kylo Ren = Male, so looks like I was wrong in relation to GC :-(

 

Who is that tweeting that stuff?

 

I've heard this argument before. That Maul's death was due in part to his overconfidence and that he was a disposable pawn to Palpatine. And while it's true with Dooku; as we actually see Palpatine give him up, "Do it!!" (Btw, one of the PT's worst lines of dialog); it simply isn't the case with Maul. The Jedi, Palpatine explains, are "no match" for Maul. But that's about as in depth a look at the Sidious/Maul dynamic as we get/got. And that's the problem.

Yes, all of Palpatine's apprentices prove to be disposable. But the decision to introduce a new bad guy for each episode did nothing but illustrate just how unimportant they really were. So I'm agreeing with you and at the same time disagreeing.

IMO those various villains should, in some way, foreshadow Anakin's eventual fall. That's why it would have been much easier to have one apprentice that carries through to the end of the PT; one character to eventually die by Anakin's hand, after which his fate as the Emporer's servant is more or less sealed. It certainly would have made the story easier to follow and made Anakin's fall more clear/defined.

Anakin ignoring the code and lopping off Dooku's head should have been a terrible moment of weakness and perhaps the final tragic act that brings about his descent to the dark side. But instead GL has to beat us over the head with Anakin doing absolutely reprehensible things over the course of Ep II & III; killing women and children Sandpeople, killing Dooku, killing the Separatist leaders, killing fellow Jedi, killing younglings...?! I mean WTF!! Anakin isn't a tragic fallen hero, he's a whiny, murderous a-hole. Anakin should have succumb to the dark side long before killing Windu based on all of the awful blast he was doing. It's contradictions in story and tone like these that are hard to reconcile. So having a clearly defined villain counterpart to Palpatine's evil overlord makes sense because it shows exactly what destiny awaits Anakin. Anakin killing that foe only to then take his place makes it just that much more tragic.

So when you continue to introduce new baddies whose sole purpose is to die or be killed, it serves no purpose in moving the story forward. We already know from the ending of ROTJ that Palpatine isn't above sacrificing Vader if he thinks a new, younger apprentice (Luke obviously) will better serve him. Which brings us back to Maul. Palpatine sends Maul to deal with the Jedi. Nothing in his plans or motivations in TPM seem to suggest that he's sending Maul off to die to make way for a new apprentice. It seems Palpatine has very little knowledge of Anakin until right near the end of the movie, so clearly Maul wasn't sacrificed to make way for Darth Ani. Maul dies because the heroes needed to be victorious, simple as that. And unfortunately it showcases a lack of creativity on GL's part because instead of giving us a fleshed-out villain with depth and a backstory worth elaborating on, we get one expendable henchman with a new lightsaber after the next, just waiting to get cut down by the "heroes."

 

I agree to recycle the twins approach feels wrong, BUT, didn't Lucas approve the idea for Timothy Zhan? Could Lucas has have given him the framework? According to this quote it was Lucas plan all along to have twins....."According to Zahn, he was "briefed" on Lucas' plans for sequels years ago and how the Thrawn books would fit in. "The original idea as I understood it- and Lucas changes his mind off and on, so it may not be what he's thinking right now - but it was going to be three generations," said Zahn to Entertainment Weekly"

 

I for one hope that Kylo Ren is not a Sith and blurs the line of dark side user and Jedi. I want to see someone who uses the force for personal gain, but not evil. Example being, uses his powers to gain riches. Maybe he mind tricks some cute Twi leks in a cantina to be his "friends". Or maybe it helps him move up the ranks as a pilot in the republic fleet. The redemption of Vader proves Yoda was wrong when saying "once you start down the dark path, etc.". I like the rumor that he's a wannabe Sith., It gives the character some human qualities, unlike Maul who was simply an assassin for his master.

 

I actually hope Driver is the Lone Solo, that Luke has no kids and that Luke's legacy is "the will of the force" not because or despite the fact that someone may or may not have put the force magic on old lady Skywalker.

 

Yeah I loved the "Do it!" moment.

As for what he told Maul, really? Palps is a known liar. He tells people all the time what they need to hear to do what he needs them to do. By this same time Syfo Dias is out there working for him and Dooku is likely on the rise. Maul's time had come.

Again I find this interesting all the secondary villains do foreshadow Vader. Maul is a creature of fear. Anakin was very afraid but in the end like Maul would obviously learn to harness the fears of others and cause dread and frankly when he runs around the third act of ROTS killing kids and separatists he became the same sort of assassin as Maul. Dooku was once a respected Jedi driven out by his convictions something Anakin certainly had moral issues with the Jedi. His action against Windu was the same sort of break. Also Dooku's betrayal and slaughter of so many Jedi incited anger and counted on that rage against those he fought. Vader was a master at drawing people out in rage. "Your feelings are strong for . . . Your sister." Vader also brought not only dread but the same sort of stateliness to play. Finally Griveous "more machine than man."

 

I 100% believe that Kylo Ren is the son of Han and Leia.

 

Why?

 

There is little to no evidence of Kylo Ren/Adam Driver being a Solo. Until I see solid evidence outside of crazy speculation I will continue to say this theory is utterly ridiculous.

 

I hope Kylo will become a real Sith, just like Vader. A wannabe Sith sounds a little meh, but if he is actually a wannabe sith and becomes a real sith, i'll be fine with that storyline. But who is the new Sithlord?. Or will there be no sithlord and all the siths are on there own now, just being evil and want power.

 

My current theory is that he will become one by VIII. He will be trained in the dark side as Rey and maybe Finn are trained in the light. Serkis is the big bad and Kylo Ren will become his dragon when he isn't able to get Rey