SPECULATION OFFICIAL Kylo Ren Discussion Thread

oh i'm sure we'll hear a lot of complaining about Darth Vader 2.0 even though the story arcs will likely be very different.
the mere fact of a redemption with have people screaming copycat even though it's a theme of stories since time immemorial.

i don't think Ben's redemption is going to be perfect or clean.
he's not just suddenly going to flip a switch and say: i'm a "good guy now!" and they throw him a parade with balloons.
i think it will be an uneasy alliance at best with a lot of work to do going forward.
i'm hoping what we're left with is that he has a desire to change, amend, and atone ~ even if he's not quite all there yet.

 

True but...

I don't see much of an arc for Leia (or am I missing it?) She's both a Skywalker and a Solo I guess (if they got married) so I guess maybe it cancels out for her . But seriously she's been a resistance fighter (essentially) for all her life. Nothing has changed that I can see... yet.

But I agree that the human aspect of these movies is as important as the supernatural aspect (I think they're equally important)

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 21, 2016 ---

I do recall that. But I also recall that he said it somewhat defensively and unconvincingly (both from the audience's perspective and Snoke's). I think Kylo and Snoke know, and really the entire audience is supposed to understand that what Kylo is saying is equivalent to bravado and projection of strength. If his father truly meant nothing to him, he would have been indifferent to killing him, and would've done so without hesitation (see Lor San Tekka and the villagers on Jakku for reference for how Kylo kills when he truly doesn't care).

He cared... you can't hate something that doesn't matter to you in some way... he cared.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 21, 2016 ---

If that's the path they chose, it'll be interesting to see what story elements they use to get there. Maybe it's Leia that plays the pivotal role in this instance. I don't know. To me he seems equally poised to be the face of evil in the galaxy as he does of being the redeemed hero (though truthfully neither one of those things is mutually exclusive)

 

i think Leia has gotten short shrift in the films thus far. in the books it feels like there's been a lot more character development for her and you see her trajectory toward reconciling with her own heritage (which she's going to have to face through her son, i guess).

see above; i agree that Leia will be pivotal. it's her story with Ben now that his father is gone and i feel like it's unlikely Ben and Luke will ever be close (if they ever were). i think it's up to Leia to allow him back into the fold. still think it will be Rey that motivates him to get there, but ultimately it will be Leia that seals the deal: she needs to forgive and be forgiven as much as he does.

 

According to Aftermath: Life Debt, they got married right after Endor. And both Bloodline and TFA novelisations made clear she and Han were married.

Don't get me started about the arc for Leia on the films.

And even so, with the lack of development of the arc for Leia being a Skywalker during the OT, I think this flaw was used as a foundation for the ST in a quite good way.

Totally agree.

 

Ok it sounds like we all agree that Leia really hasn't been given the due she deserves, at least not the full measure anyway. I'm glad that's not just me. At a minimum in the next episode I would like for them to explain why Leia didn't become a Jedi given the need to rebuild the order and given her blood line. I'm not saying there isn't a good reason for it, maybe it was Leia that truly has held the Rebel Alliance/Resistance together all this time or maybe Luke thought it was just too late to train her (though it's arguable that any of the old rules needed to apply given the situation the Jedi were in). At least say as much, give her character's actions some depth and meaning.

Also, now that Han is gone, I forbid them to kill off Leia. She has to make it. I think we've had enough noble parental sacrifice, we've achieved our quota, Leia must live until at least the next trilogy (same with Luke). That's my position and I will not budge. Make it so Disney.

 

i think the reason we've been given to understand in the books (particularly Bloodline) is that she's deliberately wanted to separate herself from Vader (she fears it, and let's face it, of the twins she is the Dark side). i'd like to see them explore this more in the film; give it some real shape and heft. they're all standing around blaming Vader for Ben, but i suspect she blames herself.

she's always perhaps subtly used the Force in her own work in her own way (that's been suggested too), but she chose a warrior's path to mirror her adoptive father deliberately not to follow in the footsteps of her biological one. and again, not dealing properly with her son has contributed to the mess that he is now and that may force her to confront and deal with her own Force-related issues. at least i hope so! through Ben she can begin to understand and forgive Anakin and maybe reconcile her own powers as a result.

1000x this!

 

Did Carrie just slip that she will be there on Episode IX?

It makes me feel a little bit more assured but anyway, they cannot kill Leia.

Exactly: I want to know why she does not have her lightsaber! Lol.

She's her father's daughter. Especially with that: "I would burn down the galaxy if I thought it was right." LOL.

 

I watched it a couple of times and I must of missed the slip, whats the time on it?

 

5:23 where Andi asks her what's next for Carrie, and she answers about writing a book, looking ahead to make another show ("The Empire Strikes Wishful Drinking") and then she says: "and then we're doing another one of these movies. (...) just finished doing one like four days ago (Episode VIII)".

 

Yeah, now after seeing that I believe she did let it slip that she is in 9. Good at least we dont need to worry about another main character dying till 9.

 

Favorite moments - definitely Temper tantrums Although the "Torn apart" scene is an instant classic and gave me chills each time I watched it.

 

This is really good analysis

 

The Nogri called her " Lady Vader" in the Thrawn Trilogy not for nothing.
Beside that I admire Carrie Fisher for her being just like she is.. Carry-ing her heart on her tongue. She absolutly is an iconic and even more c(h)arri(e)smatic person.

 

Carrie and Mark are already confirmed all the way through IX by Rian Johnson (I think) .

 

That's excellent news.

 

One more slice of the darkside.

 

this is a really interesting podcast about signs and symbolism in TFA pointing to Kylo Ren's redemption.
it's long, but worth it: there are some very interesting points made throughout.

one of the most curious/interesting is drawing comparisons between Kylo Ren and the Millennium Falcon (two things dear to Han Solo).
fast forward to 20:00 to listen to that part, but again, the whole thing is rather insightful.

i especially like how they talk about how nihilistic it will be for Leia to say there's Light in her son and to ask Han to bring him home and for those things not to be "satisfied"; how that's just bad storytelling, period.

other interesting tidbits: the symbolism of the "incomplete" map, the son/sun, destroying the oscillator/Kylo Ren.

good stuff.

 

Snoke is the compressor! Ha! @FN-3263827 Thanks for sharing!

never paid much attention to that part of the script... cool stuff

the PLANET
IMPLODES -- THE SUNLIGHT IT CONTAINS BURSTS FORTH, and as we
get further and further distance from what was Starkiller
Base, we witness the REBIRTH OF A SUN. Light restored to a
corner of the galaxy.
​

+1 yeah this not how Hollywood works.