Official Luke Skywalker Episode VIII Discussion Thread

All old heroes aren't pathetic wrecks. Luke seems more disillusioned than selfish and unless I see new material suggesting otherwise, nothing about his profile says coward. I care because outside the movie, the character has earned (in my eyes) respect worthy handling as the overall story transitions to new characters.

--- Double Post Merged, May 29, 2017, Original Post Date: May 29, 2017 ---

Luke was everyone's childhood favorite (to let me tell it). I'm surprised to hear how many Han fans have materialized recently LOL, but that's another story for another time. I don't know why it's controversial to expect and almost demand that Luke's character be handled with great respect as they transition to new characters. I hope they do it for all the legacy characters (particularly Princess Leia since this is her last installment)

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The most obvious could be that he feels for the constant back and forth between light and dark to end, the major dogmatic representative ideologies needed to end; including the Jedi. But it could also be that he was looking for an answer as to why so often people were tempted with what they called "the Dark Side" only to discover there wasn't a Dark Side but (for example) an Passion driven side and Logic drive side, and that there was a need for both.

 

Oh Lord please no. The jedi have to go on. No Jedi is better than the Jedi are bad. Luke became a Jedi at the climax of ROTJ dumping the Jedi because they are bad or wrong breaks the OT.

I think he wanted knowledge perhaps how to deal with Snoke. Or he couldn't kill Kylo just as he couldn't kill Vader.

Mark always saw the Jedi as wizards in ANH. The sabre was Excalibur. Merlin in many of the stories disappeared after a great tragedy before being pulled back to the fight. We saw that with Han to a lesser extent. Grief might be the explanation and that is a common trope. I just wouldn't call it cowardice or ruining the character.

 

So much of what was familiar about SW under GL has changed now. I don't think the changes in convention necessarily have to stop at the existence of Jedi. I mean, they never had a female lead Jedi ever, now they do. There was a time when they would never repeat a word used in a previously used SW title now they have. It used to be that anyone on the Movie Poster wielding a LS would be a Force User... doesn't look like that will be a hard and fast rule going forward. And heck, they got rid of the Sith altogether. What makes you think that it's impossible that they won't get rid of the Jedi? The Sith were no less iconic, and yet they are no more at this point. I think they best you can hope for is that the Jedi cease to exist as they used to perhaps retain a few of the traditions under a new name (I postulated that they might be called the Order of Bendu reflecting their new proclivity towards balance).

I really do think the image of a Jedi that Luke became enamored with is gone, and perhaps the blow that destroyed that image was Ben turning. I really do think he is cynical about the Jedi dogma.

 

I think Luke in the end WILL train Rey as a Jedi, but Rey is going to have to be the one to break Luke out of his funk. I think the line "It's time for the Jedi to end" comes at the beginning of the film when Rey tells Luke that Leia and the Resistance needs a Jedi (him) to help fight the FO.

 

Most of your examples are cosmetic Jedi are integral to the OT. Sith was never said in the OT. And the Sith being put to an end was said by the creator of the series was the goal of the chosen one. KK takes lots of pains to talk about keeping Lucas'legacy going so I don't think they are burning bridges. My point is Luke for 3 films was on his way to be a Jedi and it was good. The crown of the OT was him beconing a Jedi. Tear down the jedi and Obi-Wan is a fool, Yoda is a derranged cult leader and Luke's journey was a farce.

 

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I'm paraphrasing here, but they say that TLJ in terms of filming remains unchanged. What I think they mean is that with Carrie's untimely death, her role may remain unchanged for the most part in TLJ, but it doesn't mean reshoots won't or have taken place with other actors. It's unheard of for reshoots NOT to happen for any film. For example, Mark made a trip to the UK, but he was never open about what he was doing there. Possible reshoots? Keep him in Ep. 9? Or another project altogether. Rian was also there at the same time doing SW work.

I've always had the hunch that Luke would go in XI. But I must admit I'm a little worried it could happen in eight, which I think is a big mistake., and I think LF is very well aware of that. Don't introduce a character back full on, then get rid of him, plus having the other remaining legacy character unexpectedly pass away, have no choice but to announce her character death, too. It's just too much in one film and would really upset part of the fandom.

We'll just have to wait.

 

The PT is part of Lucas legacy going as well, and it wasn't until then when we attempt to understand how Anakin turned that we start to see the problematic aspects of the Jedi ideology. Oddly it feels like the PT sets the stage for the changes in the Light/Dark conflict being examined now. It seems like a natural evolution.

I agree with you in the OT, Luke learns about the Jedi and becoming one and he takes us on that journey with him; we learn as he learns. He, however, cannot take the journey with us to see the PT where we see the blind-spots in the Jedi ideology. And we can't elect to see the Star Wars universe exclusively through Luke's young eyes; into the ST. We know what we know from the PT.

I don't think we have to arrive at the conclusions you're drawing just because the Jedi ideology might not have been entirely right. I mean Qui Gon ended up teaching Yoda about the dead communicating with the living through the Force. There was stuff that the Jedi, this far removed from their origins, were still learning... even as Masters. Did any of us know that the Force could go dormant and then awaken? Does that make everything before it a lie because it can? I think we are constantly learning things about the Force and how characters can use, exist, and experience it. And as that understanding evolves, so do the attendant philosophies concerning that interaction.

If Luke's journey ends in the end of Jedi, and the rise of something new... it doesn't make it farce, it makes it evolution. IMO.

--- Double Post Merged, May 29, 2017, Original Post Date: May 29, 2017 ---

My hope is that Luke survives into the SST. My suspicion is that he won't, that somehow they'll manage to find an exit strategy for his character in the ST. I just hope that it doesn't happen in 8. It's WAY too soon, and there's still so much that can be done through his character

 

I would be wary of reading too much into Mark's comment and the lines from the trailer. This is DELIBERATE! C'mon people. Mark is known to troll the fans and said the same thing about being in TFA at the end.

Even if Mark isn't trolling, we know his view of Luke just by listening the interviews he's given. He thinks he should have come in to save the day in TFA. While many fans may agree, that would be like if Yoda saved Luke in ESB and started fighting Vader. It would have ruined the current heros journey (Luke/Rey). I think Mark may have been surprised by Rian's take on Luke, which will evolve over the course of 2 movies.

As for Luke's character in TLJ, do you really think the trailer gives away the entire direction the movie is going in regards to the Jedi and Luke? Hell no, it's designed to show a continuation of where we left Luke in TFA. It's designed to provoke our emotions and curiosity. Luke will be in a much different place by the end of TLJ. That's how movies work. It makes no sense to have 2 hours of Luke wanting the end the Jedi but training Rey and helping in the fight. TLJ may be setting the table for a triumphant Jedi Resurgence with Luke and Rey leading the charge in Episode 9.

 

I think it's fair to say there is some truth in the advertising (notable exceptions notwithstanding) For example Rey was advertised as a scavenger who would evolve into a Force User, and she was. They told us despite his mask and his appearance, Kylo Ren would not cut the resolute and unwavering figure that Darth Vader did in ANH and ESB, and lo behold Kylo Ren was a vulnerable unsure villain. So they advertise this next movie as The Last Jedi, I fully well expect them to explore that concept. Perhaps what he does is train her as a balanced Force User which is not what a traditional Jedi is. They could very well end say they're ending the Old Order of Jedi Knights and starting the New Order of Jedi Knights. There are possibilities that would still stay true to the title and concept. I don't think Mark is trolling at all, and honestly I think it's a bold concept for SW to try to take on. I am concerned that they really could mess it up, but if they pull it off, it opens a new world of Jedi Knight personalities that we didn't/couldn't have before (because of the rigidity of their ideology)

 

I've been arguing for a while that the title must make sense over time, not just the 1st or 2nd acts of the film. It's The Last Jedi, so there can't be a bunch of Jedi running around at the end of the film. Luke will most likely be a mentor and point Rey in the right direction, but I don't see her being trained with the purpose of being a Jedi Knight of old. I see Luke giving her the tools to figure it out herself. Forced training of Ben Solo may have been where they went wrong.

Truth in advertising when it comes to movie trailers is pretty much an oxymoron. Everything we're seeing is out of context. We are meant to get a basic emotional reaction and motivation to see the film by seeing a very basic story element. Watch how all the speculation will change after a full trailer drops and we get more nuggets of the film. This happens every time.

 

Great post

 

He ran away from his responsibilities rather than handle them. He abandoned his friends when they had lost a hell of a lot more than he did, and finally if he is in fact Rey's father or guardian he is officially a worse parental figure than Tywin Lannister. ROTJ Luke would never have run away if one of his students fell. TFA/TLJ Luke is a selfish coward, period.

 

You don't know that. He could have gone on a research trip to increase his knowledge about Jedi training and how to prevent his students turning on the Dark Side. Besides, if he abandoned his friends, he sure did leave them with a lot of info on who to contact to get a map to his location, he left his droid with the rest of the map and his closest friend, Han Solo, was very aware of what he was trying to find. If he had truly wanted to abandon Leia and Han, he did a pretty bad job in that field.

 

Careful not to feed the troll!

Just my own speculation, but what if we find out Luke is actually the source of the awakening? That Luke did something on Ahch-To that started the awakening?

 

There is a quote from RJ where he mentions Luke on Ahch-To. I currently cannot find it, and it's annoying me greatly (help me @MagnarTheGreat - you're my only hope!)

it goes something along the lines of saying that the reason that Luke is on the island makes sense to Luke.. and will make sense to us. I'm sure the quote also mentions or hints that Luke is not a coward, or that we certainly won't see him that way.

it's remotely possible that i dreamed RJ saying that... but i can't find the quote to prove my sanity.

 

Rian Johnson: “Yes … The big [favor] was, I asked [J.J. Abrams] if R2 could come with Rey, and if BB-8 could stay behind with the Resistance. Originally it was BB-8 who went with Rey, which makes sense for the story in a way. But I asked, ‘Can you do me this solid and switch the droids?’” “Figuring out where [Luke’s] head was at was the very first thing I had to do when writing the movie. I had to crack this. And it had to be something for me that first and foremost made sense. Why did Luke Skywalker go off to this island? That was the starting point, and that’s what the entire movie explores.” “I didn’t want it to [be that Luke is a coward]. There has to be a good reason that makes sense to him — and to some degree makes sense to us.” (May 4, 2017)

 

thanks guys! amazing how you find these things so quick... especially from the lack of detail in my post


interesting that RJ had to come up with the reason for Luke being on the island. I know that there are quotes everywhere stating that the story is basically open to each director... but still, it's interesting how much creative control LF have actually handed out.

 

Hamill claimed he didn't know Luke's backstory for VII and it's still much of a mystery for VIII too.

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?posts/364517/

 

i remember that... the look on KK's face was priceless before she jumped in with:-

we won't know for a few years who really knew what.. MH is clever enough to come up with a clever anecdote about making up his own back story and JJ patting him on the head. I'm not saying it's yet another conspiracy theory... it's probably true, and it's possible that JJ didn't know either if RJ is correct about having an almost empty canvas for TLJ.

Would you give an actor a big spoiler filled back-story before his 30 second non-speaking role in a billion dollar franchise, that hangs on secrecy and on-screen surprises? i suspect that none of the actors knew squat other than the scenes they had done, or were about to do.