Official Rey Episode VIII thread

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Rey is the main hero, it's pretty clear, Like Luke and Anakin before her. Finn and Poe are likely the new "other Big Three" characters.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

She knows about the "stories" about Luke and the Jedi, and she had just had Kylo messing around with her mind like two minutes earlier. So obviously se knows that you can do that to people, and Yoda says in ESB that the Force is largely about belief (which is why he told Luke to pull his X-Wing out of the swamp, and then cited Luke's lack of belief as the reason why he fails). And Rey's it again during the final battle.

I'm not holding it against the movie if people cannot grasp subtlety, and need everything spelled out for them in dialogue. The Kylo duel is another, it's all there if you're paying attention.

As for the bolded part, don't mistake a small segment of fans on the internet for "the general public." I've seen little evidence that most of the general public believes this at all.

 

I'm curious what they have planned for poe since he was supposed to stay dead.

I disagree that she falls in the anakin role ( he played a minor part in ep1 while having major screen time, in ep2 it was his story but played 2nd to Obi Wan, then in Episode 3 he took center stage) could even argue Obi Wan was the primary throughout the PT

I will agree she is more in line with luke. Ep4 he wasn't the main player till the trench run, ep5 he held the majority of screen time. It also showed he was human and kept him grounded. Ep6 took off the restraints and let him be the alpha warrior class a jedi should be.

If you apply those formulas to rey you run into the issue of how do you humanize her with out neutering the character. Maybe she was trained maybe she just has a strong connection. Either way you can't diminish that and not lose the audience. The same time her power curve will make it hard to feature her.

Force pull luke didn't do till ep5, mind trick he didn't do till ep6. (Again no mary sue comments just facts) where do you take her from here?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

This is what those that believe finn is FS or plays a larger role than people think have been saying. When it comes to the kylo fight you read the book or script and you can see that he isn't even trying to defeat her. He wanted to turn her.

Also both book and script say he unlocked something when he was trying to probe her mind. It's possible she isn't that talented in the force just absorbed some of his knowledge (I doubt that as it would weaken her characters appeal quite a bit)

 

Her actions in TFA indicate that she uses her powers, almost on instinct when put in truly desperate circumstances. And she used them on a nameless faceless stormtrooper and a guy who had multiple disadvantages lined up against him at the time. As for weaknesses, I can think of a couple right off the top of my head:

-She needs to learn to control that power and not let it overwhelm her.
-Her being so naturally gifted, could make her overconfident/sloppy, which could come back an haunt her.
-Her abandonment issues, and her desire to get revenge of Kylo for his actions, is something that he or Snoke could exploit/use against her.
-Etc.

I DO think that she's headed for a big setback in Episode VIII. It's the second film of a trilogy, the second film in a SW trilogy, and directed by Rian Johnson (who leans darker as a rule). My guess, she fights a stronger, more ruthlessly focused Kylo and this time, loses (and perhaps ends up seriously injured). Also she might get some kind of painful details about her past revealed to her.

 

Screen time or not Annakin was always the central character.

 

What if "Rey" is just a manifestation of Finn's tortured, subconcious wish for a lover/mother substitute? What if she was never really there?!?

Or what if, you know, she turns out to be the focal point for this trilogy?

 

Those are things that she could have to deal with not current weaknesses...
Young anakin - not able to access his force powers, small size, a slave

Ep2 anakin - obsessed with his destiny, brash, quick tempered, cocky,hard headed

Ep3 anakin see ep2 +angry ,partially robotic, easily manipulatedo

ANH luke - naive, foolhardy, full of self doubt, no combat training
ESB luke -fool hardy,self doubt, fear
Rotj luke - overconfident, messiah complex,

Anyone else see that poster and wince at jarjar?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

Fight Club reference wins the day!

 

All the talk about misdirection this and just Abrams is all about misdirection that.
If he did have even the slightest hand in how these movies will go forward....is it so crazy to think that he's gonna pull this ish again?

I mean, at least with this movie, he knew there would be a trilogy. That's the main difference.

So what would initially seem like a misdirection, in the end, isnt. It was right under our nose the entire time.

 

@Rey24B what do you think about Oneness from the EU? Think that sounds a lot like what happened toward the end of 7?

 

Yes I'm aware of it. I'm not sure that it applies here YET, lack of evidence and all that. But we'll see what happens moving forward.

 

JJ is not in charge its Kathleen Kennedy. Also the international trailers and marketing tell a very different story. I never fell for the eyes blast, the solo blast, destiny crap. I was aware of many different directions. I ask you, did you really think Kylo was never going to fight Rey? Did you honestly think Rey never visited Skellig? Did you think they would put the major plot points in a trailer? Or did people just plainly ignore all that?

 

Did I, no. Did some in the GA, perhaps.

 

I'm honestly kind of baffled by two related arguments that continue to rage on regarding Rey and her future in the saga:

1. She hasn't been trained and shouldn't be able to do ______ so well already.
2. She's so perfect that there's no way for her to grow, and nothing to build dramatic tension.

I'm going to attempt to let the OT settle these issues.

ISSUE #1

This one practically solves itself in ANH. Mere minutes after being told how the force works by Obi-Wan in the Falcon, and after trying and failing only once, Luke does the impossible and perfectly blocks 3 laser blasts in quick succession. Why was he able to do this? Because for a brief moment he was able to calm his mind and let the force take over. The force blocked those bolts. Luke was merely the conduit. And it is very well established that Luke has a hard time focusing and trusting in the force. It's a major part of his character:

YODA: Concentraaaaaaaaaaaaaate!

LUKE: I don't believe it.
YODA: That is why you fail.

YODA: This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away, to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was, hmm? What he was doing.

LUKE: Master, moving stones around is one thing. This is totally different!
YODA: No! No different! Only different in your mind.

YODA: I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience.
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This is where Rey comes in. Rey does not have this same character flaw that Luke has. Patience and focus come naturally for her; she's spent her entire life developing those skills, which were critical for her survival. In stressful moments she has to remember to calm her mind, but every time she remembers she is able to get out of her own way and let the force do all the work. The force blocked Kylo's mind probe. The force mind tricked the stormtrooper. The force fought off Kylo Ren with a lightsaber. Rey was merely the conduit.

This leads me right into...

ISSUE #2

Ok so she's lacking Luke's major character flaw, which seems to hurt issue #2 rather than help it, because it seems to bolster the notion that Rey is too perfect. But lets back up again to the OT to see if there's anything there to clear this one up....

What is the source of the dramatic tension for Luke in his journey? What are Yoda and Obi-Wan most concerned about? What is the focus of Yoda's training? When Luke faces his father, what is the biggest threat facing him? What was the foundation of his failure in the cave?

The answer to all of these questions is that Luke is highly susceptible to the dark side of the force. That is the source of the drama. Will he fall, like his father before him? And in the end he almost does. Vader finally pushes the right button, and Luke begins his descent, only to correct himself at the very last moment.

So lets jump back to Rey again.

In the fight with Kylo Ren, after Rey concentrates and lets the force take over, she opens her eyes and is a completely different character. Kudos to her for her fantastic acting, because you can see it immediately in her eyes. And then we see that her fighting style has pulled a 180. She switches from defensive and careful parrying to forceful hacking and slashing (which looks eerily similar to Luke's fighting style during his final attack on Vader at the end of Jedi). Then she grits her teeth and paces around Kylo after stabbing him in the chest and kicking him to the ground. Then she cuts his lightsaber in half and then, after he is disarmed, slashes up his face. Dark side much? In fact, the script (which was confirmed to be real by Pablo Hidalgo) goes further to say that if the ground hadn't split and snapped her out of her trance she just might have killed him.

So there you have it. Rey has already had a taste of the dark side, and we're only in the first episode of this trilogy. It took two full episodes and part of a third for Luke to experience that same thing. Rey is in major danger of falling to the dark side, and those are some high stakes.


Personally, I feel like this resolves the issues without resorting to any kind of mental gymnastics or apologetics. Though I was admittedly very wordy (it's a flaw of mine), these are very simple arguments with their foundation in universally acknowledged core concepts from the OT.

Curious to hear what others think about all this.

 

Issue 1 you are comparing different feats
Blocking a couple training bolts is the point of training bolts. In the book perfect weapon you learn more about what it takes for him be come proficient in blocking bolts.She used mind trick, force pull and some kind of force channel all in 20 minutes?

Yoda was helping luke after he had spent a couple years traveling the galaxy for knowledge and reading kenobi's journal. Its not to say she couldn't get lucky with accessing he powers but to do all of that fairly effortlessly is an issue. even if she is the daughter of sky walker you think she has a stronger connection to the force than anakin or luke? both of which needed more than 20 minutes?

Issue 2 No one that says she has flaws can list actual flaws. Luke has several flaws. which i listed in a previous post here. His tension was the fact that they knew vader was his father and feared he would join him if he knew. then once they knew he wouldn't they feared he wasn't strong enough. No point in the story did he best vader till the end of the 3rd movie. We were always waiting for him to get to that point. Now you have rey and she is already there. doing things luke took 3 movies to do.

Now for the darkside ... if she is the primary hero of the story... she can't fall so we have no concern that she will go that far. The only way they could do that is if Finn is the actual hero despite her being the focus(did that come off right?). Luke couldn't bring Ben back no way he could bring rey back if she fell, that leave only Finn. I think that would be a great story however many fans of rey feel it would take away from her. So how do you keep her relevent and still keep with the power curve? Add something force/cosmic that only she can stop. Takes her out of the fight but makes any over powerness moot

 

Still one of my favorite posters EVER .

 

Lmao, did I. No. But I also didn't think they'd put a black guy as the lead in the biggest franchise around, despite their talks of "diversity".

Doesn't mean I don't have hope though, but no....I never actually believed it.

 

I feel like rey has to go dark. She already defeated the darth Vader of her time. I know kylo was injured but she mind flipped him to. Shes just stronger than he is. Whats left is go dark or kill snoke. I almost feel like after TFA they need to step away from mirroring OT plot points. Second act is supposed to be dark. And I just can't see anybody being a threat after she washed kylo and is getting trained by luke. You know what they say you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villian. But I can't see KK going for this.

 

I LOVE how Kylo Ren is A Queen .

 

I think Rey is definitely going to have a "Break the Cutie" moment in VIII (to speak a little tropese, if I can). Maybe she learns something incredibly world-shaking, or Kylo ends up pwning her.

 

-She's got abandonment issues. She's willing to endure such a miserable existence for so long, for a pipe dream (which she knows in he heart of hearts is a pipe dream). And she turns down a dream job from her idol for it as well, and the movie plays this as something that she has to move on from.

-She's naïve, she's the ONLY one who cannot see through Finn's lies.

-She's impulsive. She reflexively chases after Finn without knowing anything about him (and no, her being lucky that he's a good guy doesn't make it less of a flaw). She also tries to shoot Kylo, which only serves to get her knocked out a second time. Heck that's why Finn is in a coma now, he had to defend/protect her.

-She has anger issues.

-She runs away from her destiny as fast as she can (unlike Luke who embraces it pretty quickly), which only serves to get her captured in ANH (BTW Luke wasn't captured until ROTJ, and Anakin not until AOTC).

And those are just a few that come to mind offhand. And people exaggerate Luke's "flaws" in ANH. He's a little whiny early on and a little naïve, that's kind of it. He doesn't pretty darn well for himself once the main plot gets going, and demonstrates quick thinking/intelligence as well.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2016 ---

Also jtobiska has good points, and not just with the Yoda quotes that are hard to refute as they're right there onscreen, But also bringing up the past films is flawed since:

-The extent of Force powers has been CONSTANTLY expanding in this franchise for decades. There's no Force Pull until ESB (btw where did Luke learn to do that, we never even see him being TOLD about it, let alone taught it)? Force Jump came in in ESB as well. Fore Lightning isn't until ROTJ, and Force Push isn't until TPM, etc. And that's not even counting all of the EU stuff. So TFA is nothing new in that regard.

-What Rey doesn't is not, in principle, all that different than Luke being able to blow up the DS without a targeting computer by "accepting the Force," or using Force Pull in ESB despite not even being told that it's exist onscreen before that (when put into a desperate situation). Or flipping out and beating Vader, and actual Sith Lord, into submission within like 30 seconds after being on the run for most of the fight, etc.

-The movie seems to definitely imply that this is something new unusual, and calls attention to it. So it's most likely a plot point moving forward. Snoke even mentions an "awakening."