SPECULATION Rey's lineage and the end of the Skywalker saga?

Sure - but Rogue One features a bunch of new heroes who do not need to get Luke and Leia involved in the story to save the day and get the plans for the Rebellion, as Shitain is suggesting HAS to happen whena story is told concurrent with a Skywalkers existence. Its just evidence that his claim isn't valid.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2017 ---

LMAO - we're stillw aiting for aht evidence.

if an out of context comment is a "win for you".........

 

@Canadian Ronin

I think it's a real cheek for you to demand evidence or state that someone is
only arguing there opinion, when I fact that is all you have done yourself.

Your opinion is that you think its possible to set the new trilogy after the events of the ST and that it is perfectly acceptable to not reference the current cast of characters. You also think that Disney will want to revisit the Skywalker family I'm later iterations. That's fine but these are your opinions nothing more and that is what you are arguing your opinion.

To turn around and claim yourself to be a 'Big boy' and lord yourself over someone else is monumentally arrogant. Considering you backed up your opinions with totally incorrect and ridiculous references as to why some of the OT characters weren't used in R1. I think you need to evaluate how much you think of your own knowledge.

To me you don't come across as a 'big boy' you come across as a petulant child that can't accept that some don't agree with your opinion.

You can wrap up your opinion with as many irrelevant facts (in my eyes) as you wish but it doesn't change the fact that all you are arguing is your opinion. Unless you are privy to some wellspring of information we mere 'little boys' aren't?

 

Yoda says in his TCW arc that the Jedi will achieve a "victory for all time," just not in the Clone Wars. That victory is coming in IX. Boyega said that IX is the "war to end all wars." Balance to the Force is coming, permanently. IX will be the end of the Skywalker saga, because after the victory for all time is achieved, nothing will be able to undo it.

 

except he isn't arguing opinion.

There is no "I think" "in my opinion" etc... he has only talked in definitive statements of fact on the subject.

The difference is I have and can use other examples to show why my "opinion" is a fact. Shitain goes to great lengths to avoid this because he knows he can't, but he also wants to speak with authority but knows once it becomes his opinion he loses that authority.

Really? What did I say about Rogue One was wrong? SUrely you don't mean comments like this -

which were clearly addressed

You aren't using my reductive argument about shitain's point to be a serious take, even after I pointed it out are you?

 

What does this have to do with anything else that's been discussed here?

A. What expectations were in 2012 when there hadn't been a Star Wars movie set after RotJ in 30 years does not directly correlate to what expectations would be after Episode 9 when new Star Wars movies are commonplace.

B. Even if people did expect Skywalkers to be involved going forward from Episode 9, that in no way supports the idea that those stories would thereby be creatively bankrupt.

 

Why not just cancel all SW movies and everything SW and forget about speculating, discussing, disagreeing, arguing and all dark side traits. Look at the pain and suffering it brings on some souls. It's not the Jedi way!
MTFBWY

 

I mentioned this a few pages back and got no response regarding it.

I absolutely agree, @The-Son-of-Suns (also: username a reference to the original Journal of the Whills quote? Neato!): Yoda is surprisingly very explicit in his wording, considering the release date of the episode (almost a year and a half after the sale of LFL to Disney) and his position as arguably the wisest character in the franchise.

 

The point is that if stories take place within the Star Wars era and they are large in scale, then people expect to see Skywalker's and their lack of involvement would have to be explained. But then even if there is an explanation, people will still debate endlessly about their return thus not giving the new characters space to breathe. The best thing to do, to maintain the Skywalker Saga legacy and provide complete creative freedom for future films, is to kill off the Skywalker's.

 

You can supply all the 'facts' you want but that doesn't convert your opinion to fact. And as far as I'm concerned you haven't supplied 1 relevant bit of information. @master_shaitan is arguing his opinion as are we all and the brilliant thing about these sites is being able to freely argue your opinion.

However you are preaching more than arguing and seem to be searching for approval rather than discussion. Or should we bow to your opinion as supreme?

None of what you are saying is fact its all opinion and that my friend IS A FACT.

 

Don't bother mate, the guy is messaging me insults now. Just enjoy the fact that he admitted he would be angry if the Skywalker's weren't in TFA and it wasn't explained. Like with his hilarious examples, he has done a better job at presenting my argument that I have. I'm actually grateful.

Cheers!

 

I don't think any part of that is remotely true.

1. There is no reason a story can’t be epic without a war that involves the entire Galaxy. Just like an epic story set on Earth doesn’t require involving the entire world.

2. The Skywalkers' lack of involvement only has to be explained if it would make sense for them to be involved - and even then, explaining their absence doesn't mean the story will be derailed.

3. New characters have already gotten space to breath in a Galaxy where Skywalkers are currently alive and active. There is no reason to think that could not continue to be the case.

4. There's a strong argument to be made that killing off all of the Skywalkers would actually destroy the Saga's Legacy.

I don't really understand that lack of imagination required to think that the only way to have creative freedom is to kill everybody off. Besides, all of the concerns you have for repeating elements of the Skywalker Saga will be true for any Force wielding character. If there were no Skywalkers, then once a story reached a certain scale, audiences would expect the Jedi to show up - same effect. So unless you're advocating for a Galaxy with no Force Users at all, there are going to be creative limitations - but if you don't want Force users, there's really no reason to have more Star Wars movies at all.

 

read that first sentence again.

yes I have - I've given multiple examples of fans accepting characters not being present in moves and being ok with - why would star wars be different?

and you forgot to tell me hwat i got wrong about Rogue One

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2017 ---

Exactly - there is a difference between annoucing episode 7 and a brand new thing - if your point depends on ignoring this different, its a bad point to have.

Citation needed. And I've already PROVEN to you that audiences are ok with charactesr not being every movie in their "universe" - why would star wars be different?
This doens't happen with Marvel and I suspect your lack of evidence is because you looked and couldn't find anything.

LMAO - if you need to take words out of context to claim victory, your life makes me sad.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2017 ---

of course it isn't.

 

Yoda also said that by going to help Han and Leia that Luke would destroy all that they have fought for, and that once you start down the Dark Side path that it would forever dominate your destiny. But neither of those things turned out to be true - so he's not exactly infallible.

Plus, I really don't think the current creative group at Lucasfilm is going to feel beholden to what Yoda said in one episode of a cartoon that was written before Disney purchased the property.

 

Yoda was correct. Luke got his butt whooped and even tells him in ROTJ when Luke goes back that, "Unfortunate that you rushed to face him, that incomplete your training was."

When Yoda says, "No more training do you require," it is a recognition that Luke faced the temptation of joining the dark side (in ESB) and rejected it. That's why Yoda has nothing more to teach him.

The TCW episodes were published after the Disney sale and Yoda says that off the tail-end of a Force-induced vision where he sees Anakin Skywalker betraying and destroying the Jedi despite being told that he could prevent it if he just let him die.

And accepting that fate for the Jedi was what made him worthy of serving the Force, so much so that he was deemed worthy of learning the secret to becoming a ghost after death.

All of this is important stuff. Very important indeed.

 

Marvel does not work as an analogy because the nature of the series is completely different. The avengers like justice league and suicide squad are a collection of heroes brought in from an anthology of stories. So if one is missing no one bats an eyelid and don't forget there has only been 2 avengers films and to my knowledge they've all pretty much been included. Your passing off 'civil war' and 'winter soldier' as films in the avengers series which they are not. They are both titled 'captain america' not the avengers. So they are under no obligation to include the entire cast.

Star Wars (at the moment) is one complete saga surrounding one family and one ultimate conflict/set of events. It is not comparable to the avengers, a better analogy would be Harry Potter, the lord of the rings or to focus on one constant superhero partnership like batman and robin. Then you can draw comparisons.

As far as rogue one is concerned you tried to back up your reasoning by asking why weren't Han and Luke called upon to 'assist', when as characters their story didn't exist yet. Han was a random smuggler and no one but OB1 knew of Luke's significance. So it in no way enhanced or backed up your argument.

So, your facts aren't that at all. At least not in my eyes.

 

No Star wars isn't that - Rebels, Rogue One, Solo, this new trilogy expand it beyond the Skywalker Saga. There is no reason why a bunch of new, unconnected characters would be required to interact with Rey Skywalker just because she exists - which is EXACTLY like Captain America not being required to interact with Ironman and Thor just because they exist.

You mentioned before and didn't answer my question - why are a bunch of new characters in an unexplored corner of the SW universe to Rey Skywalker as Robin is to Batman?

Yes and the comparison/reason for that question is, why would new, unconnected characters call upon Rey Skywalker to assist them when her story post Episode IX doesn't exist yet? These characters don't know Rey, who she is, where she is, what shes doing, how to call upon her etc... Its really no different then the Rogue One example I used as a reductive/absurd argument.

 

Exactly.

 

Did you know World War 1 was considered the War to End all Wars?

Its generally used as a term used to indicate the war is big, massive, epic. Not literally that no war will ever happen again. Doesn't make a lot of sense for Disney to not have another war in its Star WARS franchise.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/58411/wwi-centennial-war-end-all-wars

 

Look those are my opinions on the matter and I'm not changing them. You asked me to answer your questions and I have. I don't intend to debate this with you any further. I didn't come on here to be preached at by anyone.

That's the end of it.

 

This is a lot different than killing off the bloodline. An end to the cinematic saga of the Skywalkers is inevitable, at least for a time. I do believe that it can and will be left open for the EU to continue on years down the road or left with the possibility of another Skywalker trilogy years down the road. Like a decade or more down the road.

I do agree that Ep9 will mark the end of the saga as we know it but also the beginning of what is next (RJ's clean slate saga). I just don't think that it will be the last that we will hear of the Skywalkers forever.