SPECULATION Rey's return

Rogues1138's point was Lucasfilm was reluctant to have a POC headline the film. According to the rumors, Daisy would have costarred playing a much older Rey (an old Kenobi/Yoda-type character.)

Of course. It's the world we all live in.

We'll see. Early this fall, the Star Wars community will have an opportunity to judge Dawson's work. I'm going to 'go out on a limb' and predict the reaction will be more enthusiastic than "just okay."

 

Ok let's unpack this.

I admire your attempt at diplomacy here. Yes, we did have a chat about the EBN guys specifically, and even then you said that you found a couple of their points to agree on. I believe that @Rogues1138 may have said the same. I do admire your wading through that muck to try and find some semblance of decency. The thing is much more about WHO they are and their beliefs. They are flawed and ignorant bigots. Period. You know the old saying, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... well, brother, I grew up in the duck pond. People like this paint with a wide brush specifically to draw people in. So why you may agree with his opinion of KK and her T-shirt, I PROMISE you, it is coming from a far different, deeper and more toxic place with them. They are not here with open-minded objectivity like most of us. They have an agenda to push, and that agenda is that people like them- White, Christian, Conservative, Straight, Cis-gendered, are superior and everyone else is less than. It's terrible that these people still exist in 2023. It's dreadful that they are in society. It's frightening that they are entrenching in our political system. I won't have them encroaching on my Star Wars where I go to escape all the nonsense. That's why i am and will continue to be so outspoken against EBN and anyone else like them that I stumble across.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 23, 2023, Original Post Date: Jun 23, 2023 ---

Now... Back on track.
My hope and speculation is that Damon's basis will remain somewhat intact or at least the spirit of it. I do believe, as earlier "leaks" suggested, that the leads of this movie will be two younger characters, a male and a female. Now, whether or not they are POC, I don't know, and while I wholeheartedly agree it is time, I also don't think anything is accomplished by forcing this. I do not believe there is any behind-the-scenes shenanigans regarding the racial make-up of the cast, at least no more than appropriate. It's very possible that Damon had certain actors in mind and with his departure, they are no longer in play. I also think that Daisy's role or level of involvement changed mid-stroke, and that may very well have caused some of the issue. I like her, I like Rey, and although I don't think she will be a lead, she will indeed be one of the marquee names for the movie. Another interesting thing to keep an eye on is the Idris Elba rumor. With him as the Bad Guy, that could have an impact on all this silly race debate.

Disclaimer:
By "silly race debate" I do not mean that it is not a valid discussion in general. I think y'all know me better than that... But that I don't think it is a valid issue in this instance.

 

She's had a British brunette star or co-star in every SW film up to this point. The writing's been on the wall for a while IMO. Having someone who more or less looks like Kennedy star or co-star the films is far from a bad thing, but I too would like more diversification in lead roles in Star Wars films now too.

I attribute this more to Filoni's scripts and direction than Dawson's acting. Rosario Dawson can act from the few roles I've seen her in, but Filoni has such a tight leash on Ahoska's character that he may want Dawson to mute it to fit his perception of the character rather than her own. That being said, I liked Ahsoka in The Mandalorian. She was calm but still emoted, witty without being condescending.

The way I see it, it's like the difference between a "passing of the torch" film where the Old Guard is still a main character or the main character (Logan, the latest James Bond movie, Creed*, etc), and a film where the old guard is just the mentor and nothing more (X-Men: Days of Future Past**, Boruto**, Fire Emblem Engage**)
In one, Rey would simply be the Obi-Wan Kenobi character of the movie. In the other, she'd be the focus, and the movie would be more about Rey completing her arc before inevitably dying and passing on what she learned.
Is the story about a young up-and-comer who Rey simply happens to be guiding? Or is about Rey finding an apprentice and going on one last mission for whatever reason?



*Creed is an actually incredibly balanced example. Adonis is the main character and the focus, but Rocky is given the respect deserved, and never overshadowed Adonis.
**These aren't good examples, but they're the best I can think of on short notice. In each of them, the older characters play parts, but they aren't the focus of the story. Their backstory isn't explored unless it's relevant to the current plot, and they're (usually) not given more focus than the new generation.

 

Politics has poisoned pretty much every topic now. I feel bad for people who aren't wise enough to see they're being manipulated to read, watch, or click this stuff. The people generating this content do it because they know people will read, watch, and click it. It's money. There's a high profile YouTuber who praised The Last Jedi when it came out, but realized there was money to made feeding the hate brigade. It was around that time when this started happening on every conceivable topic. I don't even click on videos like the one linked a few posts before because the machine will start recommending similar videos. This is how the machine works.

Anyway, I don't think the Rey stuff is complicated. I've been saying that a Rey film made the most sense for a few years now even though I'd like to see a different era. Some fans can pretend that Rey isn't popular if they want, but making her the center of future films is logical. It's what they would have done with Luke in 1991 if George had wanted to make sequels. As is the fate of all things the OT fans will start dying off in the next few decades and the 12 year old fans of Rey will be pushing 21 by the time the film comes out. The future of the IP is in the newer characters.

Like anything, they have to make a good film. It doesn't matter who the characters are, what race, or genders they are if the story doesn't work.

 

Well it's a much bigger tent nowadays, so there is room if not a need for more "tentpoles" There are so many incredible ambassadors for Star Wars as far as actors go, but Character-wise, Rey is absolutely in that camp. Din, Boba Fett, Chewbacca, 3PO and R2 will always be there. I can see Ahsoka joining those ranks, especially if the show is as big as it has potential for.

Ok, I just have to jump in here and defend the future Mrs. Wilson. Rosario is a top-tier talent. She seems well-committed to Ahsoka and all-in for whatever this leads to. Everything I have seen and read shows that she has put blood, sweat and tears into working with Dave to develop Ahsoka and her journey. My slightly biased opinion is that the series will be amazing and Rosario (among other cast) will garner high praise for her performance.

But.. that's... what acting IS... I also think as we saw her in Mando and BoBF, she and Dave were still somewhat figuring out where Ahsoka was emotionally at that time and place. She is no longer "Snips". By this time in her life, she has seen some sh!t.

I love your spirit, my man, and I'll definitely help where I can, but I'm not actively out there hunting these Dbags. I can tend to get wrapped up in things like that and next thing you know I'm kicking in doors. (Insert uneasy laugh)

 

Rey is my favorite character in the sequel trilogy, but I would have enjoyed what Lindelof had planned. Ridley Scott one of my favorite directors also did away with Lindelof's script, thats why Prometheus suffered a bit, still for me a great film. Star Trek Discovery is an example of a forced IP with a POC. It just sucked...awful series to say the least. I believe Lindelof had a story to tell with Star Wars, nothing forced at all, he did a great job with HBOs Watchmen with a POC as the lead. I truly believe Lindelof had a story to tell with Star Wars... nothing forced... so for me its unfortunate. KK remains one of the greatest film producers of all time; (G.O.A.T. STAUS) therefore, I'm looking forward to this Jedi Order film with Rey.

 

Wow. I knew Rosario broke up with Sen. Cory Booker. But -- HOLY COW -- I didn't know it was to 'find greener pastures' with our friend, @MBWilson!!!

THIS! ^^^^^

 

I'm with you 100% on Lindelof. I've been a big fan and anticipated his involvement with Star Wars for nearly 20 years now. I hope what he has said about his departure is true and that bridge is not burned. Watchmen was amazing. Even with all the rumors and innuendo about what may or may not have happened BTS on Lost, I don't think any of that defines who he has become as a creator or as a man. I truly hope enough of his vision remains to get him some sort of Story By or such credit, and maybe his path will cross the GFFA again someday.

 

I was surprised to hear his take on the story was moving way forward. It's a bold choice and one you'd only make if the story was spectacular. It just makes too much sense to use Daisy/John and if Lucasfilm has them on board then it's a no brainer.

 

I seriously can't believe that some fans have a problem with Dawson's take on Ahsoka?!?!!! THIS is exactly what I'm referring to about the Star Wars fan community. Are they butt hurt that Ashley Eckstein didn't get the role or did they want someone else in the role? Dawson is a POC and some just don't like her performance at all which amazes me to no end... so yeah, KK is wise to revert to Rey for this new film rather than take a risk with a film that the majority would hate, simply because, they don't see themselves... or: 'its just not for me...' which I've heard online numerous times... so 99% of the Hollywood films produced today are not for me??? incredible... just incredible. Over 20 MCU films that are not for me... so Black Panther and Wakanda are just for me??? so 2 films are just for me...

I will never go to SWC because I know I won't be truly welcomed...

 

The notion that someone can't get onboard with a character, or whatever, because of the actor's color, is such an absolutely insane thing that for little old me, over here in privileged foreign-land, it is hard to grasp how it can even be a thing. (Also, I'm quite white myself, so I'm probably also ever so slightly ignorant of these matters; I have empathy, yes, but I haven't lived it, of course).

That said, I don't believe it's something that the majority would be influenced by -- the vocal minority, yes, and probably a very large minority in the US where... let's just say things are a bit different -- but it is obviously an important part of many equations. I mean, can it really be the majority? If so, that is absolutely insane. (Or more like, absolutely insaner).

As for Dawson specifically, I was never a big Ahsoka dude, but by the Whills, Dawson is fantastic! She's very charming in the role, with a very forceful presence, too; I'd love to have a chat over a beer with Dawson's Ahsoka, but I would not love to get on her bad side! And that, as far as I understand the character, is perfect Ahsoka! A bundle of whoop-butt with a charming heart of gold.

When it comes to the Rey movie, I'm very excited for it!

I just had to address this, 'cause this is actually not correct. The original script for Prometheus was written by Jon Spaihts, and Damon Lindelof was brought in to review and tinker with it. Instead, it was Lindelof that convinced Ridley Scott to rework the script from scratch, to make it less familiar and Alien-esque and more different and lofty. It was Lindelof who took over the original script and reworked it into a parallel story rather then a direct sequel, with a less familiar set of monsters and monster life-cycles, for instance.

I happen to be a bit of an Alien nut, so I couldn't resist besserwisser-ing here (Also, I've had a glass, so...)

 

As hard as it is to comprehend, it's very real and very deep, especially in certain regions. My mom came from Ireland to Alabama smack dab in the heights of the Civil Rights turmoil. She says it was like going to a different planet. Even with the Catholic/Protestant issues she had known her whole life, what she encountered here was just beyond reason. Of course, things have changed over the past 50 years or so, but there is still an undercurrent. I will never forget as a child I found myself leaving a sleepover party, because the father confiscated my Lando action figure. No joke. That was the first time I remember seeing my dad raise his voice to another adult. The guy was a deacon at a local church.
There has been more than once in my life I have seen the Aftermath of a KKK cross burning... It's real.

No, it's not necessarily the majority, but right now in the US, an equally harmful issue is apathy. Sometimes fear. These people have been around for a long time, but, at least in my lifetime, they have never been so emboldened. That's what scares me the most. At least when they were living under rocks and out in the woods they weren't so pervasive and aggressive.

 

It might have something to do with Daisy being introduced as coming back years before the film is released. If she was just coming back for a supporting role I doubt they make that announcement. There will certainly be new characters, but Kennedy has said the story is about creating a new Jedi Order and Rey is central to that story.

 

She saw some stuff even as a kid. Honestly, Ahsoka acts the same in the final arc of TCW as she does in her appearance in The Mandalorian in a lot of ways. Both were directed by the same person (or at least TCW's final season was spearheaded by Filoni), so the consistency is there. In world, her composure and stoic nature could be BECAUSE she saw that stuff. Not being emotive could mean that she's closed off, or simply things don't affect her the same way.

True, but who's behind the camera can determine how well the acting is seen within the camera. The way I see it, it's like comparing Leia in TFA and Leia in TLJ. The Leia in TLJ (and Mark Hamill's performance in TLJ compared to his performance in TROS for that matter) is noticeably more emotive and evocative. That's not just due to what acting is, but who is directing.

I personally don't see it, but that's just me. To me, Rey's still on someone else's path - on Luke's path - and it limits her character. Not to mention that we haven't really seen enough of her to warrant that position, at least not to me. Although I'm not too hot on the character of Rey in general, so seeing more of her without 100% confirming the people around her who make her a likeable character IMO isn't an engaging premise. Maybe after a show about her restarting the Order, I'll change my mind. Right now, I'd worry that the focus would still lean too heavily on Rey and not enough on the new lead, or at least there wouldn't be a good balance.