SPECULATION Romance - who falls for who in VIII?

I tell you what this comes down to me, and it might be that my expectations are too high - but for me Star Wars has the ability to pass on a modern morality to its audience, that very few other films and modern mythologies can. I hold Lucas' story in high esteem (even when the films are baaaad..and they've been bad). I believe that the mythological tale told in the Skywalker saga deserves to be followed on in a way that adds to the mythology and doesn't just lazily repeat what has been told before. And the ideals and values presented in Star Wars are as high as they get. Luke forgiving his father, sacrificing his life and then his father doing the same is a beautiful act of love and selflessness. Anakin being forgiven and "saved" by Yoda and Kenobi, also highlights the highest virtues of forgiveness and compassion.

And so for me, the one story that could hold up to this and at the same time present something we haven't seen before and that the new younger generation should see is #ReyLo. I'm not talking about the silly Twilighty form of ReyLo people instantly think of but the idea that these two people, unrelated but brought together, have compassion and love for one another. That is such a rich story (considering both pasts of these characters) and one that would truly add something to the saga. Like I say, if this trilogy is really about ending the conflict that has blighted Vader's life and legacy, then the best representation of that can be told through ReyLo - whilst at the same time teaching kids about the power of real love - not silly infatuation.

If they're brother and sister or cousins, then it is more of the same. Rey needs to go higher than Luke...

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 27, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 27, 2017 ---

Just stay clear of the talking Snoke...I mean Snake.

 

yeah, that's not subtle at all ~ hahahaha

 

It's okay though...I don't see Rey going anywhere near some sort of tree of knowledge....oh. my. gawd!

 

thin, @master_shaitan. practically transparent. hahahaha

 

Star wars is a tale about RESPONSABILITY.
About becoming adult by making the RIGHT CHOICE.
As any tale of "formation" is.

I don't want teach my son that he can be forgiven no matter what.

I don't want to teach my daughter that is up to her to hill someone else soul.

That's what believed those women killed by their men.

No thanx.

 

Don't let them watch the OT then.

 

r

Agree, especially in this world we are living in, a consequences for acts of evil should not be abolished.

And such films, with immense cultural and sociologic impact, as Star Wars, should follow basic moral axis of distinction between good and evil.

I hope , and I apologize for involving this term, terrorism will be treated as terrorism in Star Wars to, not a "grey"or relativized. .

Did I made greatest sin ever on this forum by saying this. Kylo Ren is terrorist,and Snoke's FO is terrorist organisation.

But I did, din't I..

The haevy price of truth.

By their taking on this matters Disney's Star Wars will be judged newerheless.

 

I mostly agree with you except for that part. There can be forgiveness and there should be forgiveness. I believe that a lack of forgiveness is a hatred. However, I also believe that there is a difference between forgiveness and acceptance of wrong-doings/sin. You can forgive but still believe in the need for consequences.

 

Edited to add: I skimmed many of the posts prior to posting my thoughts.

I don't have a problem with redemption for Kylo, although I think it would be repetitive given the OT and redemption of Anakin. Still, I don't see it happening through a romance with Rey. It could happen through a relationship with Rey and her influence, but I doubt it would be a romance. Even an influential Rey relationship would be pushing it unless she somehow gains some influence over Kylo by way of helping him out of the dark cloud he is in regarding the Force.

Rey herself has a past to discover. What happens if Kylo has a hand in the pain that is her loneliness and feelings of abandonment due to participating in some heinous act which took her parents from her? Too many questions and honestly I believe this would take up too much of the story to make a Rey and Kylo romance by which Kylo comes back to the light believable. I just don't see Rey having that much influence, especially that much influence compared to Snoke, Luke or Leia when it comes to Kylo.

Heck, Finn is more of a catalyst for Kylo than Rey from what we know. Kylo considers him a traitor and if the two ever meet up again I see that causing Kylo to double down on his First Order views since Finn broke away from them. Rey, the only thing she is to Kylo is someone to bring over to the Darkside, maybe train, maybe help get stronger, maybe try to help him overcome Snoke as that's how the Dark side operates.

But that brings me back to Rey. Why would she even consider caring about Kylo in that way beyond needing someone more experienced in the Force to help her?

I'm not saying it's impossible, but with what we've been dealt, it seems implausible and unnecessary and out of left field unless there's some pivotal connection between the two that brings them together in that way.

As far as Kylo's evil acts and inherent and seemingly confused evil...I agree with The BBP. One can be evil without malice or truly understanding the action one is taking is evil. There is evil with evil intent and evil without the intent to do evil. However, Kylo has been shown he has the intent, the will, he has made the choice to do evil. He has chose the Dark side over the Light. He has chosen Snoke over Luke, Leia and Han. In fact, he sought out to solidify this choice by killing off his past and to him that was killing his father who to him signified the good in him. Classic dark side. Alongside this, Kylo has chosen to be part of mass murder in order to push forward the ideas of Snoke and the First Order.

There's a lot more going on in Kylo than confusion. There's a lot of choice there. Kylo's not some kid who has been tricked by someone. Heck, I don't even consider that about Anakin although you could make a good argument he was deceived. But after some point, the deception, the confusion angle is gone as neither of them were mind-contolled into doing things. They both started making choices.

We can talk motivation, all that, but Kylo was shown making choices which led to acts of evil.

And although I don't necessarily have a problem with an evil person finding love and redemption through the warm heart of another, I still think that would be a story in itself. Thus, it would require too much to be conveyed in the next two episodes. Plus, Star Wars doesn't have a great romance track record. Yet, with that said, there's a good argument Anakin was redeemed through the influence of the love for his family potentially through the love of Padmen which also drove him to the dark side by the way. However, we had one movie attempt to establish Anakin's infatuation with Padme, then another attempt to establish their love and another attempt to explain how much the love influenced him. With the Sequel Trilogy, so far, the only interest Kylo had in Rey was that she had knowledge of the map to locate Luke and that she was Force sensitive. That's it. They didn't talk beyond that. So I have a hard time trying to see why they would talk beyond those two points unless something else is revealed that connects them. Even then, I don't see Rey moving the emotional line from concerned that Kylo is dark side to "I love me some Kylo Ren to the point I'm going to try everything to turn him back to Ben Solo."

I see that more for Leia and Luke.
However, ultimately I would appreciate it more if they kept Kylo evil rather than repeat the redemption story.

 

I was about to edit just that.

Forgivness it's not what I meant.
I believe in forgivness and redemption.
But sure you have to deserve it and to pay the price.

 

Even in canon, Leia could not tell the galaxy that Vader was her father but threw Sheev into a nuclear reactor in order to save Luke. Leia had to hide her blood line because of the name "Darth Vader". The galaxy at large won't forgive Ben and I don't see him and Rey having a happily ever after unless they run off to the unknown regions together to live in anonymity.

 

and as a result her son is running around the galaxy in grandpa's footsteps.
the ST has to fix the mistakes these OT heroes made and this is prime among them.

as for running off the unknown regions together ~ sure, entirely within the realm of possibility. : D

 

Exactly...and the conflict continued. Vader's legacy lives on. This is why a different approach, as you suggest, is needed. Rather than Luke forgiving Vader being a secret, it needs to be shouted from the roof tops - otherwise those who support the dark side won't ever change and those who fight the dark side won't know another way.

 

Of course it is in the realm of possibilities, it would just be very, very odd. Just the notion of them building up this female character that they have pinned as a heroine for a new generation of female fans, a character that they have used to build an animated world complete with cosplay props and dolls around only to have her fall in love with a man who is part of MASSIVE genocide and the murder of his own father, Luke's Jedi Order and an old man and his entire village all because he changes his mind and wants to be good now.

No matter how confused Kylo is or how well they sell his turn to evil as something that was part of a tragic childhood, no matter how much they make me sympathize with him, I cannot fathom them just sending of Rey to be romantically involved with him. Star Wars is indeed about family and redemption, but in near most every redemption story in the mythos, there was a mortal price to pay.

 

But it's ok if she loves him as a brother? It's ok that Luke loved his father? It's ok that Padme was worried about Vader and pleased with Kenobi to save him?

If Rey loves and cares for Ben, however that presents itself, it will be an act of power, compassion and bravery. It would only look bad if Ren is tricking her and Rey falls for him because of his flowing locks. If we get to empathise more with Ben and understand him AND if we see Rey walk a darker path, then it will become much more palatable.

If Ben Solo returns, helps the good guys, repents and helps destroy snoke, the audience will soon see him in a different light.

 

i can't say it better than @master_shaitan just did. at the end of the day we have only ourselves and our own hearts to answer for.
you focus on and see all the bad he's done. i'm going to focus on and see all the good he could do.
because this is a saga about hope, not "mortal cost".

in my mind, nothing precludes a happy ending for him. Ben will work out his own atonement.
and whether Rey loves him or just becomes his friend, her being open to his goodness will not be denigrated by other people's failure to let go of their need to further punish someone who is clearly already suffering so much.

 

Yes. Familial love and romantic love are completely different things, which is why you love your sister and love your wife, but it is two completely different emotions. I don't get how that needs to be explained.

If you need Rey to go dark to qualify their romance, then that weakens Rey's character. The Prom Queen doesn't commit a crime to go get a boyfriend out of Juvenile Hall. No matter how much you get me to emphasize with Ben, I still would not want my daughter to fall in love with a man who was capable of doing the things that he did.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 27, 2017, Original Post Date: Nov 27, 2017 ---

It's not even a focus. You are talking about forgiving someone, which I agree with. However, this someone would have been a part of butchering trillions more people than Hitler did. Even if Hitler had turned around and did great things to end the war and save even half of the lives that he is responsible for taking, can you tell me that you would want your daughter to date him?

 

"A Jedi should love everyone...they should even love the Sith". George Lucas

+

I'm not saying Rey needs to go dark to qualify their romance. I'm saying that she WILL experience the dark side within herself and this will help her understand Ben's plight a whole lot more. And when we see Rey face the same struggles "we" will be more forgiving of Ben.

 

I see a lot of people saying that they want Kylo to be redeemed or don't have a problem with it, but they usually don't want it to be through Reylo. I wish they would pose a more plausible possibility. Guilt isn't enough, it wasn't enough for Vader, it took Luke's presence and appeals. So that's why I think Rey and Kylo will end up together, I think it is the most likely scenario for Kylo's redemption and Star Wars has always been a story about redemption.

 

There's a big difference between romantic and romantic. The kind of difference you're supposed to learn in school. The kind of pun that can't be accounted for in an interview because there's no spelling or spoken difference but one of meaning.