SPECULATION Romance - who falls for who in VIII?

While I agree with you about Reylo and I suspect we may agree on FinnPoe, I have to point out two key points in RJ's statement. He said a romance won't be the centerpiece to the story, meaning it won't be a major plot point of the story carrying it like it did in AOTC and ROTS. He said it wouldn't be an unrequited love similar to Han & Leia before they announced it in ROTJ. He did not say there wouldn't be a side-plot/sub-plot romance that is acknowledged but he also didn't say that there will be a side-plot/sub-plot romance.

Most of the romances advocated by shippers, Reylo, FinnPoe, and even FinnRey have major plot angles. Yet, the two he singled out in his statement were Reylo and FinnPoe. He didn't say much about the last pairing. However, that doesn't mean a hidden acknowledgment of it.

Actually, I've only just recently poked my head in this thread over the last week and I've seen entire posts advocating a major plot point for Reylo. That's what the whole debate over redemption was about.

Honestly, with Kylo being one of the main villians and Rey being one of the main heroes, I do not see how a romance could develop between them as a side plot.

Although I do agree with you that "something romantic may happen in the movie" but as to what, we don't know and as to between who, we don't know. However, it looks like it most likely won't be between major characters who would require far more screen time to build up their chemistry based on RJ's statement. Will it happen between major characters that have chemistry outside the two ships RJ just sank which is Reylo and FinnPoe? We don't know.

 

Advocating what could happen, sure. But I don't think anyone said there will be a central romantic plot about ReyLo in TLJ and that they will get together.

Same as how a father/son relationship developed over Luke Vs Vader's storyline.

Again, I've been talking about ReyLo and reading posts by ReyLo supporters on these forums for months and I haven't seen one person say that TLJ will have a major romantic plot line about ReyLo. For me, it will likely be the prelude to ReyLo. But as has been agreed - Ben Solo needs to return first before that possibility. And it has always been clear that if he does return, it will be at the end of this film.

 

You don't think the whole redemption angle will be a major plot point? And your own counter-example of Luke and Vader contradicts the thought that it wouldn't be a major plot point?

I sort of think you're trying too hard to maintain a glimmer of possibility for Reylo even when it's one of the two he named specifically as "not going to happen."

 

it's actually not. the discussion about "ReyLo" (gah, i still hate that term with all my heart) is about defending the validity of a romance as a story element, hinging on a redemption: that is it possible and potentially powerful if Ben is redeemed.

despite the fact that @master_shaitan and i and others have said we don't actually care about Rey and Ben becoming lovers, that's all some people seem to fixate on.

if there are full-on dyed-in-the-wool must-have-it "ReyLoers" here in the Cantina, i couldn't name them (and i feel like i know most everybody here). : o p

 

Ok, so you don't mind if they become lovers or not, but the redemption angle would, in itself, be a major plot point. I have seen some attach that to Reylo.

 

yeah, you can attach that to Rey and Ben having a thing (i would say it's absolutely necessary that Ben is BEN and not Kylo Ren).
so you could say redemption is required for a romantic relationship.
but redemption doesn't require a romantic relationship.

i think the problem is some people assume that we're pushing for redemption to get to the romance.
which is absolutely not the case. : o p

 

As I said on the last page: I think the problem is that the term ReyLo is being used all over the place as a way to describe the potential relationship (i.e. not necessarily romantic in nature) between Ben and Rey, whereas the term is a portmanteau and has been used as a term to “ship” Ben and Rey (i.e. a romantic relationship between the two) ever since TFA’s release.

I think that’s where the confusion in this discussion ultimately lies; people are seeing other users tout “ReyLo”, which already has the attachment of being in support of a romantic relationship between these two characters.

 

We agree redemption doesn't require a romantic relationship.

 

The romance is still Finn and Rey. It's just that Finn will probably forget about Rey once he hears she's gone, and he is going to want to leave. It will come back again when they see each other. Rey is expecting to see Finn when she gets back. Finn was expecting Rey to be there when he wakes up, but since she isn't, and he has no ties to the Resistance his attitude is I'm out.

 

i actually think the confusion is that "ReyLo" has become a derogatory term to throw in people's faces if they defend Ben on any level ~ because people can't defend Ben unless they have some wild crush on Adam Driver. [sarcasm there, in case it's not obvious]

i'm sure those people do exist (out there in the hellscape that is tumblr), but man the idea is sickening to me personally.

i keep saying it. over and over and over. i cannot articulate it any more plainly.

 

Shippers do shipping things. I'd tell you to venture into some Anime/Manga communities and discussions, but some of their shipping antics seem to be spilling out into other genres. Plus, I wouldn't want you to walk away horrified about any potential romantic pairings in anything after experiencing Anime/Manga shippers. I first experienced odd pairings in those communities.

While I do see your point, I think what adds to the confusion is you had that whole debate in a romance thread. Granted, I have seen you have the redemption debate elsewhere also.

 

All roads lead to Rome.

 

but why would i go there? i know what's out there. i've seen it. and a lot of it is disgusting to me personally, yes. who cares? what they do has nothing to do with me or my enjoyment of Star Wars or even the movies themselves (and EU material).

and if that makes those people happy, good for them.
i look for my own joy.

look at my signature. i've been defending Ben for two years. like i said, the reason i prolonged this discussion is because redeeming Ben means (for me) that he is whole and healed. and it's not okay to me to see people say: well, he can be redeemed, but he can never be happy again--or have love--or be accepted by the galaxy. because that's not whole and healed. that's sackcloth and ashes.

 

There’s no one-to-one equivalent of the Han-to-Leia, burning, unrequited love.

In our story, that’s not a centerpiece.”
..............................

@rianjohnson can you clarify on what you meant in the @Variety interview, many people are misinterpreting the romance thing...

Rian: I can't really help how people interpret it. What I said in the actual quote is pretty straightforward.

 

It was a joke in response to your sarcasm about wild crushes on Kylo Ren due to the actor.
I was jokingly pointing out that I've seen weirder things with people forming crushes on 2D characters.

Like I said, I have seen you defend the redemption angle elsewhere. I can't recall if it was in Kylo's thread or elsewhere, but I agreed with your position on redemption (there and in here) as we are both Christian. My only thing against the redemption angle is from a story-telling standpoint, it's been done before. That's what the whole OT was about for Vader. If they could find a way to do it that's not repetitive, I'm fine with it. As I acknowledge that even the most heinous and disgusting of us can be redeemed and forgiven, I do not have a giant issue with Kylo finding redemption.

However, I have seen people use that to give weight to a Reylo pairing. I admitted when I initially popped my head into skimming a lot of the thread content as it was already 70+ pages and the initial thread I posted on about a romance was a new one that got merged into this one. That's ultimately how I got pulled into this conversation.

I understand that you don't require the romance for the redemption angle. I agree. I was just pointing out that some of the confusion may arise when people see you arguing for it in a thread most specifically dedicated to discussing possible romances in the upcoming installment of Star Wars.

 

"I was talking specifically about a romantic Han and Leia style love story".

 

Luke/Leia/Vader is familial love.
Han/Leia is romantic love.
This equivocates the term love because in each individual statement they have different meanings, yet the intention is to attempt to merge the meanings into one.

Edited to Add: Although RJ clears that up. What I mean is Ms. Grufferty equivocates and if you take her position you (universal you) do too.
Also edited to add: A "force bond" also sort of equivocates here because it takes on the meaning of romantic love for Ms. Grufferty as well by applying a mostly platonic bond in a romantic way in order to still give weight to Reylo.

 

oh! hahaha ~ sorry, i misunderstood.
yes, people develop strange relationships with imaginary characters ~ and some of it is really weird.
like that one where Hux is a pregnant marsupial and.....

....(i wish i was making that up. i may be scarred for life). XD

eh. like i said, i can defend Rey and Ben together as a legitimate story angle because barring his staying in the Dark, nothing prevents it. i think a full-blown romance is doubtful in the current climate, and it's not necessary for a good story. but it also could be a good story, and certainly doesn't need to be this big drama that people are making it. : o p

i can't really control the assumptions other people make about my posts, unfortunately ~ hahahaha

 

As I said, shippers do shipping things.

I would say how big the drama is for a romance is dependent on its influence on the story. If it carries enough weight to change the motive of the characters, particularly the major characters, then it's a big drama.