SPECULATION Romance - who falls for who in VIII?

I am going to be honest, I have floated in and out of this thread off and on for a while. However, recently no matter where I go (Reddit, JCF) etc, I feel like the amount of fan push for *swallow* "Reylo" has slowly gotten louder.

I guess what I can't wrap my head around it, is why there has to be romance for redemption. ( I feel like this is always the main point being argued.)

I'll be honest, I don't like the pairing, never have. I don't think it helps Rey's character for her to "have" to fall in love and make that a part of her story arc. I feel like.. it lessens her in some way and almost makes her become unable to exist without being romantically involved with someone.

I also, feel its kinda weird for people to want them to be together, considering the whole "mind-rape/mind-invasion" thing.

Maybe I am just missing out on a major part of the marketing for this movie, that I am just not seeing/processing but it seems like stretching

 

My only disagreement with you is that a romance will somehow lessen her. Does a woman in real life who gets romantically involved with someone seem lessened in any way because of it? I think this is a misguided understanding of strong female characters and it's not necessarily born from you, but it is often something spouted out in dialogue about female characters. It is the core of the often cited Bech Del test. Again, I'm not accusing you of any of this as that would be putting words in your mouth and you simply voiced your opinion without any foundation as to why you feel that way. So take this more as a general response in regard to where I feel that thought comes from in general and a light disagreement about romance lessening her character.

 

I think maybe "lessen" is a bad word to use in this situation.

I guess, what I meant to say is that I feel like where her character is, and where I feel like she is going, she doesn't need to be in a romance. There are plenty of other ways to redeem Kylo.. if that is what they end up wanting to do.

 

no i mean drama here, in the real world with the way people pitch fits on the topic.
there isn't even a romance in the ST and yet some people are freaking out ~ hahahaha

if they shoe-horn some lame cheesy romance into the story that isn't earned and isn't organic, i will roll my eyes right out of my head.
but if they make it work? i don't have a problem with that.

 

I voted create your own with Poe and Vice Admiral Holdo. And Maz and Chewbacca..

Regarding the immediate discussion above. My main issue with Reylo besides its lack of necessity in the story is the example it sets. If they are pushing this role model/ female empowerment for Rey.
What example does it set that in order for her to "find her place" she needs a "boyfriend" (who the nicest description at this point is a bad boy ) to complete her journey. I can't believe this is what KK and Lucas envisioned was the example they wanted to set for young girls.

 

I agree with you about Reylo, but your second contention with Reylo I would put in the same vein as saying "a strong female who is empowered doesn't need a man." Again, I view that as a misguided understanding of what it means to be a strong female. Again, like I said to Redacted, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I just see it as a similar argument about female characters.

Is it wrong to convey to young girls that's okay to be empowered and find love? Does empowerment only come with independence in the sense of a romantic relationship? In other words why does this concept mean empowerment = independence = no man in her life apart from platonic relationships?

I see this as a misguided overreaction to the history of cinema in which the female character was often written as the support character, damsel in distress, romance for the male hero. Which in itself is an extreme if constantly done with imbalance and the overreaction is an extreme if done with imbalance.

With that said. I do agree with you that given the story we have, Rey does not need to be in a romance. None of the characters really need to be in one.

Lol, gotcha.

If they shoehorn in a cheesy romance, I agree.
I'm of the mind, and I'm aware we probably won't be in agreement, that Finn and Rey have an established relationship, albeit not romantic at the moment. Yet, I see this as a relationship with the potential to more likely to be developed into a romance than any of the other ships. Although, I won't die on a shipper war hill about it. I would be fine without the romance angle. It's just their relationship developed into one far closer than any of the other characters in the TFA other than the ones with already established relationship ties.

I agree with you that redemption doesn't need a romance for it to occur.

 

If they come simultaneously romance+empowerment how does that not get muddled message wise? What makes it different from a fairy tale? The "princess" needs a handsome prince. Maybe if there was some space between events I could see it, but not with chronology of these stories.

 

i don't know what i think of Finn and Rey. like you said, no dying on a shipper hill for any of it for me. i wonder about whether Finn will find a romantic connection with Rose (since that's been alluded?).

frankly, i think they are all a hot mess of trauma in desperate need of psychotherapy before they should even consider embarking on romantic relationships, but i get that this is a space fairy tale, after all ~ hahahaha

 

Rey and Kylo........like the Lannisters.

 

I have four females in my household. All of them feel empowered by princesses who relatively need handsome princes. All of them have no problems with female characters who end up in romances nor do they have problems with female characters that don't end up in romances.

It doesn't muddle the message, it enhances it as in real life females do end up in relationships with males. It's unrealistic to think a female character has to go it solo in order to convey a message of empowerment. In my opinion this is a misguided concept born out of radical feminism.

As far as Rey. I don't see an issue. In TFA, let's assume for sake of argument, Finn would become her romantic interest. In TFA the two saved each other, supported each other, they were a team. He didn't outshine her in the adventure and she didn't outshine him in the adventure.

Let's look at Mad Max Fury Road. In it, Mad Max and Furiosa, albeit, the romance was barely visible but the attraction was there, but the two did not outshine each other. They worked together as a team...a powerful one at that. It is a prime example of a powerful female character in an action/adventure/sci-fi who is paired with a powerful male character in an action/adventure/sci-fi and yes, I am aware of the extreme overreaction by some guys about it.

Let's look at Babylon 5, which is full of strong females paired with strong males and the female characters are not lessened.

Let's look at FarScape, John Crichton and Aeryn Sun were paired together in the story. She was a strong female character who didn't need a romance prior to falling in love with Chrichton and he was a strong male character prior to falling in love with Areyn. Afterward, it enhanced their characters and they remain a talked about couples and individual characters in the bowels of sci-fi discussions.

I can pour on examples from Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, etc., Star Trek, etc.

Which is why I contend it is a misguided argument often cited against female characters as an overreaction to the stories which turn females into damsels in distress or only the romance interest of the male hero.

Yeah, it's a pattern in stories to make people fall in love from traumatic events.
Boy, if they make a Finn/Rose thing then I wonder if that would fit your cheesy romance category, LOL?

 

i admit i'm a little worried about that. but it could absolutely work if done right (anything can).
personally i think Finn is head and shoulders above all others beaucoup boyfriend material, so it's easy for me to want to see him get happy with somebody.
but i also don't want to see his hero arc get submarined by a cute romance subplot either.

balance! everything in balance! hahahaha

 

Yeah, I wouldn't want his main arc to get side tracked by it either....

"A balance..." "...It's so much bigger"

 

I'm not sure Rey needs a romance but rather, it makes sense that there would be a romance with someone she has so much in common with. Again, it's not that she needs it, per se, but that she should be able to choose it if it makes sense.

However, it's very hard to look for a greater meaning or need for her to have a romance story-wise when we don't know the story yet to come.
But perhaps we shouldn't be looking at what Rey needs but what the story should be for the target audience?
And I'd say that Rey falling in love (not infatuation) and wrestling with that would be a fantastic journey for young girls to observe.
People are worried that Rey falling for Ren would be shaky ground because of the "mind rape scene" (not my term).
I'd say the opposite - if done correctly, Rey would struggle with her feelings for similar reasons and her working that out, going on that journey, enables the viewer to actually work these things out too rather than them being completely avoided. You aren't going to teach young girls about positive relationships if everything is sterile and safe. That's not real life.

But again - none of this happens before Ben Solo returns. Sure, if Rey falls in love with an unrepentant Kylo Ren then we're in muddy waters. But I don't think that is happening. We've already seen that they are connected, that he has compassion for her, that he is likely coming back to the light. So whether they be relatives or lovers, a big chunk of these difficult themes will be tackled anyway. I'm just open to the possibility of it going further and presenting the redemptive and transformative power of love.

 

on the other hand, if they start a little flirty thing, and build on it in ix, i would totally be on board with them as a couple/team in wherever this series goes.
assuming Rose isn't annoying or horrid, of course ~ hahahahaha

it would be very nice (whoever the couple turns out to be), to have a loving, well-adjusted romance in Star Wars for a change. : D

 

Yeah, as I like to point out, Star Wars, mostly the films, does not have a good track record with romances....LOL

 

I just think it would be criminal to not make use of Adam Driver's range. I'd like to see a smidgen of Han Solo appear in him in TLJ. Ren is far away my favourite character so far in this trilogy but I'm not sure I can handle 3 films of him sulking!

 

you get half of @FN-3263827's next pie for that... absolutely not before he returns !

#SaveBenSolo first... then we can talk about pairing these peeps off

 

maybe, like Lor San Tekka said, this will begin to make things right. [fingers crossed]! : D

i am about 99.9% certain we will eventually see the Solo charm in him.
because i agree: they couldn't possibly have hired him for his scowl.

 

Not quite sure which parts of your first paragraph are sarcastic, so I’ll leave it be I just think that are certain connotations already attached to that portmanteau, and so people riot and argue whenever they see it when it doesn’t apply to how they want the story to play out.

And sorry if you’ve already said, but which idea is sickening to you?

 

Okay, I may just be slow here, but am I the only person who thought it seemed fairly obvious that Finn was interested in Rey in The Force Awakens?