SPECULATION Romance - who falls for who in VIII?

That would make sense if Ben were a mindless drone whenever he called upon the Dark Side. However, he butchered an old man and ordered and entire village of innocent people to be executed.

I am willing to give him the benefit of a doubt and say that there are some poetic reasons as to why Kylo was aboard his flagship and not part of the ceremony that was the genocide of trillions. Perhaps he wasn't agreeable about that, it's certainly a possibility.

But, he still at minimum wiped out a village with an order and ran his father through. And again, "love" does not mean "romance".

 

Them you must work on your compassion.
Can I forgive someone who killed someone I care about and many others? Hard but possible.
But sure if I'm NOT in love with him, then my compassion is stronger.

 

but it is your focus. you keep going back to the things he's done.

i know this is somehow a concept that seems hard to grasp, but 1.) it's not up to me who my daughter dates, and 2.) i sit in judgment over no one.
if Hitler saw the terrible error of his ways and wanted to live a life of goodness and atonement, then it's not for me to count beans on the scale of his soul.

i'm gonna go full Christian on you here for a moment ~ not to proselytize, but to illustrate the power of this kind of storytelling:

the whole point of the story of the thief on the cross in the Bible is to illustrate the grace of forgiveness: the thief murdered a man to steal his money--an act he admitted was greedy, selfish and in cold blood. he repented and was granted the Kingdom of Heaven (not just a girl, but a whole kingdom). kill one, kill millions. it doesn't matter. what matters is the genuine transformation of the soul.​

Rey's heroic virtue won't save Ben, but it could set an example of reconciliation that the world desperately needs. to teach young people who have made terrible choices that there is life after screwing up in horrible ways, and to also teach young people that making good choices (whether through penitence or forgiveness) is part of creating a better world and a key to happiness.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself, that was beautiful.

 

I'm an atheist and enjoyed that!

Interestingly RJ made this same point in describing to people on Twitter how we empathise with parts of characters like Ren and Luke. No, we haven't had our limbs cut off by our half robotic fathers and we are not part of a space nazi empire. But we have experienced abandonment and anger and fear. It's about not taking things literally but using the metaphor to understand the morals being presented.

 

You had to go there...




And now you're tugging at my heart. I needed that kind of reminder. I guess that it doesn't make sense that I believe that he will be redeemed and even do enough good to end his place in the trilogy as Ben Solo if I don't believe that he is worthy of love.

With that, I cede my argument and just enjoy how this story plays out.

 

Well... if we call the FO and Kylo Ren a terrorist... then Saw Gerrera is a terrorist, the Partisans are terrorist, and from the point of view of those who lost friends and relatives in the First Death Star, the Rebels are terrorists too.

I'm not condoning what the FO did, what I am saying is that as old Obi-Wan would say, the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

EXACTLY!

I really prefer the treatment the current canon has given to the aftermath of the Galactic Civil War and the revelations given to our heroes. Even when Luke looks like Anakin and Leia like Padme, their characters are way different. Luke has Padme's character whereas Leia is totally Anakin. (And that's why I'm grateful to that line from Aftermath: Life Debt where she says: "I WOULD BURN DOWN THE GALAXY IF I THOUGHT IT WAS RIGHT." It's like her "Dracarys!" moment.) And that's why it makes a lot of sense that one of the foundations of the conflict of this ST is precisely, how Leia was unable to come to terms with her Skywalker inheritance impacted her son and her future.

Agree. Luke should had gone Hamlet's Horace mode telling the story of his father, how the evil Sith got his original Anakin Skywalker self into his claws as part of the master plan of The Emperor, so the truth about the Jedi and the Sith was made known to everybody.

And if they included something by Leia acknowledging her true origins like saying: "My father... was an evil man. But he redeemed himself. I ask you not to judge a daughter by the sins of her father." it would have been superb IMO.



(End of shameless Game of Thrones plug.)

"If you think this has a happy ending..." Sorry, wrong saga.

I think it would present a precious opportunity of a conflicted love, not just the typical "love vs duty" we have had before in the saga.

Amen! It will be really interesting the way it could be developed for this character.

 

Jesus was tempted and resisted.
As the Son of God he could have avoid the crucifixion.
He did not.. To show and teach that there is always free Will.
A choice to be made.
Even for the son of God.
Thus responsabiliy.
And beside that he... died an innocent to pay for someone else sins.
That's how humankind gained... Forgivness and may gain forgivness.

 

And yet he himself resisted temptation but forgave those who tortured him. He even chose a Christian persecutor - Saul of Tarsus - to become one of his Apostles - Paul. When he persecuted Christians, at first he witnessed one being stoned to death - Stephen - and did nothing. Then he started persecuting them, and went to Damascus to do so. But Jesus chose him. Saul had a choice and nevertheless, was forgiven and found his path to redemption. He even became an instrument to the growth of the Christian faith and died for it years later.

So... moving along with the topic at hand - let's focus on the romance - there is a substantial basis for the son of Han and Leia to find redemption, from a certain point of view.

 

He offered his body to God his father as a sacrifice so that God can forgive humankind.

S. Paul spend the rest of his life not with his wife and children.
But bringing the gospel around the world. And died a martir.

 

Thanks I do know that. Please continue with the topic at hand - discussing the potential romances in The Last Jedi.

Alright I got to admit I thought about a Poe/Rey romance just because I enjoyed having these two interacting, and just because it is holiday season, it's a good time to post this again:

 

I'd love that.

 

While you make a good point about redemption and forgiveness, I don't think it necessitates Rey in the equation. Also, I would argue Kylo fits the prodigal son more in this scenario with an extreme addition to it in the sense murder, but more along the comparative lines that he wronged his family and in order to return to the Light he has to do it through his relatives. Granted, I'm aware the prodigal son is exemplary of everyone and the father a stand-in for God. Yet, I see in the parable Kylo since he left his family to go towards the darkness and embraced the ideas of Snoke. He sought to strengthen this path of misguided independence by severing ties with his family and killing his father and seemingly killing his mother as well. He also betrayed his uncle.

With all of that in the story, it seems far more logical that those who will influence Klyo, or as you say, be the vehicle by which Kylo finds redemption are his relatives.

 

Worth noting that this seems to be a cleaned up version of the quote that was going around the other day (Japanese to English translations are very difficult), which was being read seemingly in support of ReyLo.

If this is a cleaned up version, and if this has been translated by a person rather than a program, then I think that it’s possible that RJ just confirmed that there aren’t going to be any other major romances which are treated as a thread in the film.

If.

EDIT: been doing some digging, and it’s from back in May, in an interview with Variety. A romance not being a big subplot in the film is a pretty big deal, considering how AOTC and TESB used them. But again, we just have to wait and see.

 

ReyLo, from now on has simillar chances to happen just as Darth Plagueis the Wise.

Rian has said that major romance is not at all centerpiece of the story, and this, in fact implies entire story---so this in fact means entire trilogy concept.(for those who try to find escape in ep IX).

 

Ummm, no.
No one who thinks that the CANON connection between Rey and Ren will show itself in the form of ReyLo has argued that a romance will take centre stage in TLJ. We have said that something might occur by the end and lead into IX. Something - not specifically romance. But a hint at a future relationship of some kind.

And this in fact works perfectly with RJs comment that there is romance but it isn't like what we have seen before in SW. It could also link into Boyega's comment about the romance not turning out he way people expect.

 

I do not see how do you still find a stamina to defend not defendable.

The mysterious connection betwen Rey and Kylo, their reationship is the centerpiece of the trilogy, mentioned, announced and referenced in numerous ocassions and places. The drama between them is the central.

But this drama is not romantic love of any larger scale as we now know.

Do not get me wrong.

I am defending quality. If it is to be ReyLo, it should be done perfectly, right, or not at all, no try, no middle,or mild.

This...or nothing ...
love scene from one of the greatest SF films of all time.
.

 

You see, I think that this is where the confusion begins. These ideas seem to be at odds: ReyLo is a portmanteau being used to “ship” Rey and Kylo (yes, as a romantic relationship), whereas you are arguing for something that is not specifically a romantic relationship.

We all agree that there’s a connection between them; I’m sure that we’ve all seen what the Databank has to say about them having a connection.

I’ve been arguing that they become friends. Are you telling me that I and ReyLo theorists are on the same page? Because that would fit your definition of a relationship that isn’t specifically romantic.

 

I'm saying that something romantic may or may not happen in TLJ. And if it does, it won't take up much screen time - because before that happens, it needs to be established that Ben Solo is coming back to the light and we need to see Rey go on a journey herself and learn about Ben. So the romance part of that, if it does happen, won't be until the end.

Now, the problem here likely stems from the name "ReyLo", which has strong romantic connotations. I use it mostly because I like how it triggers people! But the fact is that ReyLo, to me, can mean they become friends or lovers. It is about them not being related but having compassion for each other that is central.

I'm sure a lot of ReyLoites want there to be a lot of romance in TLJ and expect ReyLo to mean they will get together romantically. For me, it doesn't have to be that way, though I suspect by the end of the trilogy it will go there.