Swords and melee fighting in SW and real life

As I said before, Finn had potential for that, but his character is now taking a different turn it seems.

 

Also Obi wan wanted to create a distraction so Luke and heroes could escape. He knew he wasn't getting off that Death Star alive. That's why he didn't want Luke coming with him.

 

Why not. He wipped the floor with Ani when Ani was at the peak of his power? Vader is not half...no...fifth the swordfighter ani was. OB1 was at the end of his road. He wanted to become force ghost.

 

If we're back to the "the force makes you good at fighting" then 1) Why do Jedi ever lose and 2) Why do they bother to practice?

And "the writers can do whatever" is a lame excuse. By that logic you'd be ok with Finn escaping the First Order once his under cover mission is over by going into space unprotected and waiting there a week to get picked up by the Resistance.

Yes, Obi-wan forgeitted ONCE he saw Luke and the others ready to escape. Before that, he could have killed Vader if he could, so why didn't the Force make him good enough to do that? Yoda escaped once Sidious beat him.

It seems more likely the first order train on this stun battont hings - also probably why Finn has one in TLJ, he'll know how to use it.

 

Ob1 was old and tired, vader had grown stronger in the darkside. Anakin lost on mustafar, because he was arrogant.

 

To be a Jedi? No he didn't.

No, Obi-wan was trying tog et back to the Falcon and Vader get in his way, so they fought. And they fought until Luke and the others showed up. Obi-wan saw Luke watching, knew he wouldn't leave while he was alive, so he gave up to allow Luke the chance to escape. As I said, if Obi-wan could have killed Vader in that fight, he would have. He just wasn't good/strong enought to doit.

He didn't really wipe the floor with him, he used Anakins arrogance against him and manipulated him into doing something stupid which gave Obi-wan an opening.

If Obi-wan wanted to become a force ghost so bad, why not kill himself once the tractor beam is down?

 

Not a Jedi. Force Sensitive and to maybe fight with a lightsaber again.

 

Both Sith and the Jedi lose because both sith and the jedi dont use the force properly. Cant ignore one aspect of it if you wanna master it.
Besides. Some are more talented others need more practice.
Rey is very talented. Cuz she is most probably stronger in the Force than most.

Its not excuse if they make it a sw reality.
Your Finn thing was not done so how is that a testament to a 'lame excuse' argument?

So you are agreeing with me? Yes OB1 forfeited and Yoda escaped? Losing in sw means being left for dead or at least appendageless.

So...one can translate knowledge from batton to lightsaber but not from a staff...interesting.

And OB1 had a high ground

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 18, 2017 ---

Same thing. If anything that fight only proves how great OB1 skills were if he could parry, match and overtake the chosen one.

Besides being out of charachter for OB1?
Dunno...perhaps its a pre requisite for humans to die by red lightsaber in order to become forceghosts?

 

We weren't shown anything to indicate Finn can use the force.

You didn't really get at the issue - if its the force that makes you good at fighting 1) Why do any Jedi ever lose and 2) Why do they practice with their lightsabers? Also Kylo is the grandson of the chosen one, the most powerful Jedi there has ever been remember?

If they did that with a character like Finn you wouldn't say "someone surviving in space, with no suit, for a week.......well the writers said so!

Kind of - Obi-wan didn't die on purpose to become a force ghost and that wasn't his ultimate goal. Yoda was defeated THEN escaped.

First, Finn lose to the other trooper with the batton and Finn himself was one of the top troopers with the batton, which would indicate that no Batton to Lightsaber isn't a good skill translation either.

But thas the thing - Obi-wan didn't over take him.

Anakin became a force ghost and didn't die by red lightsaber. But your argument is/was that Obi-wan went into the fight intending to lose to became a force ghost - if he wants/needs that result so badly, why risk running into Vader when he could just fall off the walk-way once the tractor beam is down?

 

Again not saying that. I said the potential for it was lost.

 

No.
1. Both Sith and the Jedi lose because both sith and the jedi dont use the force properly. Cant ignore one aspect of it if you wanna master it.
2. Some are more talented others need more practice.
3. If Rey is Chosen one Mark 2 or Mark 3 beating Kylo in his state of mind that he was in then is very plausible.

Yes. But they....did...not....do....that...savy?

Good enough for me to call it agreement

I forgot what we were arguing here...honest.

I beg to differ

Red lightsaber requirement was not an argument. OB1 killing himself or not confronting Vader being out if his charachter was.
(I swear, sometimes i get the feeling you are just yanking my chain...mweh...go for it if it makes you happy)

 

But you said Rey was good because of the Force, it isn't about using the force its clearly (in your example) about allowing the force to guide your actions through the fight. So..........?Wouldn't all their fights come down to the will of the force?

I realize, but using your logic of "its fantasy and what the writers do makes sense because of that" you'd have to defend that decision. So, would you?

Sure, you now agree that Obi-wan was trying to win the fight and didn't just engage with the plan to lose - then agreement. But then the question stands, why did the force allow Obi-wan to lose? Did it want the Sith around for the next 4 years?

Over take implies that Obi-wan was out fighting. That isn't the case. Its obvious that at worst they are evenly matched, at best Anakin was getting the better of Obi-wan. It was Anakins arrogance at being told he couldn't jump over Obi-wan that allowed Obi-wan to win. That isn't the same as Obi-wan "over-taking" him. Never during that fight did Obi-wan have an/the advantage.

But if his only goal is to become a force ghost......... And Obi-wan was trying to get back to the Falcon. If Vader wasn't there, Obi-wan would walked intot he hanger and hid with the droids or trickedt he stromtroopers and gotten on board. He wasn't looking for Vader.

 

I've noticed that, too. Almost seems like too many melee fighters right now, but I'm not complaining.

There are a lot of really cool melee weapons in Star Wars that have little to no screen time.

 

No. I said:

In reply to your:

Meaning. She is not an untrained nobody but a skilled melee fighter that has a strong connection to the Force. Her winning without that connection would make both, him a bad swordfighter and her a Mary Sue. But since she is strong in the Force it is completely plausible that she can apply here staff melee skills to adapt them to lightsaber.
I dont get how you derived from that that outcome of every battle needs to be the will of the Force?

Yes. Because there is a difference between plausible and preposterous. Her being able to translate adopted staff melee moves to lightsaber technique cuz she is strong in the Force is plausible. Finn surviving in space no suit isnt.

No. I said killing himself without confronting his former padawan, brother and friend was not in his nature. He knew he will meet his death (but not his end) on the Death Star:
"They must be delivered safely or other star systems will suffer the same fate as Alderaan. Your destiny lies along a different path than mine. The Force will be with you...always!"
The underlined is not a good bye, but so long
Coupled with:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
It's evident his intentions were becoming a FG, beside distraction for MF's escape.

I used the word 'overtaking' in the sense of beating/bettering.

He sensed Vader the same way Vader sensed his presence, surely you see that?

 

Get a room. I don't see how any of this has to do with fighting techniques. Except online forum fighting.

 

@Joshua Decker
It has to do with drawing a parallel between SWORDS AND MELEE FIGHTING IN SW AND REAL LIFE or in this case discussing the main difference between the two which is having force sensitive combatants in SW melee fights.

 

Im not going to argue with you back and forth. Being force sensitive isn't real, belive it or not . It has no application, in the real world. You all just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

 

When it comes to use a lightsaber, yes she is an untrained nobody - unless you're going to claim she won because the force made her win. And if the force can dot hat in this fight, why wouldn't it in every fight? Being good, self taught with her staff doesn't = good with a lightsaber. Do you think Dustin Johnson would beat Rafael Nadal in a Tennis Match?

I'm not saying Obi-wan wasn't prepared to die - but he didn't go looking for Vader and he was trying to get back to the falcon when Vader found him. Clearly Obi-wan was trying to get out, after all he has a lot more to teach Luke still. Once the fight started, he was trying to kill Vader and if he could have he would have, he wasn't committing suicide by Sith Lord - look at your line, and include the sentence before - "You can't win Darth, If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." - He isn't giving up, he is letting Vader know that even IF Vader wins the fight, he still loses. It isn't until Obi-wan notice's Luke watching the fight instead of escaping and he realizes that there is only one way to get Luke to leave that he gives up and allows Vader to kill him.

So did I - Obi-wan wasn't winning against Anakin until the high ground thing.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 21, 2017 ---

And you've had someone with experience using both a staff and a sword that the skills from one don't translate to the other. The way you stand, move, grip the weapon, block, feint, strike, use your hips etc... are all completely different - so different in fact when I picked up Kendo/Iaido I had to quit Karata/Kobudo because going back and forth was too difficult. The only thing that really translates is the sense of your body and movement (think......learned athleticism)

As I said above - Do you think Dustin Johnson would beat Rafael Nadal in a Tennis Match?

And if you're answer is "if he had the force" then we're back to the force deciding all fights, which doesn't really bare out in Star Wars.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2017 ---

We don't know how many fights there will actually be - its not like we saw the Emperors Red Guards do anything in Return of the Episode.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2017 ---

Obi-wan didn't come to that conclusion until right before he dies. If he knew he wasn't getting out from the get-go and had to create a distraction, why didn't he go find Vader instead of going back to the Falcon?

Often times its the 60-70-80 year old Kendo players who are the best ones and they can completely school very good players who are half their age. Their experience and years of refining their technique (ie - no wasted movements) trumps the speed and athleticism of younger players. When Obi-wan fights Vader on the Death Star - yes Vader is younger, stronger, faster etc... but (assuming Obi-wan is continued training etc...) Obi-wan should have more training & experience and better technique.

 

That is true- though I recall in an interview that Johnson did reference the intimidation of the sheer potential of the RGs in Jedi, and implied that the Praetorians would see more action.

 

@Canadian Ronin
I dont think you read what I write.
If you are interrested in the further discussion on what could melee fighting between force sensitive fighters entail, what could be their modus operandi when it comes to addopting new skills and how is that not applicable in real life squirmishes, please read all I wrote to you in replies and think about it .
I have not much more to say beyond that