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That RT user score...

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by TheBBP, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    TLJ is taking a big beating by users over at Rotten Tomatoes ( https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/ ). I noticed something to consider when considering the weight of that score.

    At RT, just over 70,000 user reviews have been tallied in a day since release. Thor has only has 80,000 tallies total since it's release.

    So, in less than 48 hours, nearly the same number of people have logged into or registered at RT to review TLJ as Thor has had for it's entire month and a half run so far. If it keeps at a similar clip, by Saturday morning TLJ could have 10's of thousands more votes. Consider that and/or how that might have happened.

    Is that a legitimate number of folks who have actually seen the film and are going there to register their opinion? Are we Star Wars fans FAR more likely to run to RT immediately following the viewing of the film so that we can tally a score? Or could it be that there are a bunch of angry folks angry about leaks who have gone there to vote?

    We already know the power of angry denizens of the internet. They vote EA to be the worst company in America every year over the likes of corporations and financial institutions who's practices have actively helped ruin environments and ruin people's retirements and livelihoods. But a game publisher is the worst?

    Is the user score legit or is it an angry mob?
     
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  2. Dra---

    Dra--- Rebelscum

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    It's easy to see why this would be a problematic movie for the fans. The butchering of Luke Skywalker and a long run time. That's why critics exist; they can look past certain things fans can't or won't perceive. I think both scores reflect the film very well -- the critics can see it's a well made movie that pushes in new directions; the fans usually dislike new directions.
     
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  3. Aglarion

    Aglarion Rebel Official

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    It could still be legit if it's an angry mob, I don't see the contradiction. Who knows anyway but I trust user scores over critic scores any day.
     
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  4. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    To me, the contradiction is the odds that the same amount of people that reviewed Thor over the last month and a half have logged in to review TLJ in less than 3 full days. It doesn't pass the smell test to me. To me it looks like the same level of angry mob that votes EA to be the worst company in America.
     
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  5. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Force Sensitive

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    Critics get hated for low scores, critics get hated for high scores.

    I'll take a critics review any day over a frothing user review that's screeching about Mary Sue's and destroying childhoods.
     
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  6. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    The Rotten Tomatoes audience score is straight up bantha poodoo. You can log in your rating even before the movie comes out, there's nothing stopping you from logging in from multiple accounts and rating it poorly. There's no mechanism in place to prevent brigading.

    The vast majority and I do mean VAST majority, do not rate movies on Rotten Tomatoes. It's the fans of the movie/ franchise that do. And a subset of the fandom doesn't just dislike the movie- they absolutely loathe it. I disagree with them but I can see where they're coming from. So where the casual fan might rate it somewhere between 4-5, the hardcore fans rate it 1 or even 0.

    The RottenTomatoes audience score isn't a very good barometer of public opinion. The cinemascore or even the industry trusted com score are the ones you really need to look to.Their rating systems have controls and they only poll actual members of the audience.

    Screen Shot 2017-12-16 at 12.12.34 PM.png

    That's the same score than TFA got.

    This is what Deadline has to say.

    Screen Shot 2017-12-16 at 12.15.39 PM.png

    Make of it what you will
     
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  7. Galaxy '77

    Galaxy '77 Rebelscum

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    Seeing the user score on Rotten Tomatoes was disheartening because I really enjoyed the film. I actually ended up making a rotten tomatoes account just to give The Last Jedi a positive rating. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but there is a possibility that the fan score might go up over the next couple days as initial reactions are always strong, and in this case polarizing, and people's opinions may change with time.
     
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  8. Kekstarter

    Kekstarter Rebelscum

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    TLJ is the Batman v Superman of Star Wars.
    No wonder the user score contradicts the critic score bought by Disney.
     
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  9. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    "Bought by Disney"

    Jesus Christ. I get that you didn't like it but is it impossible for you to imagine that several people did?
     
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  10. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    This is the biggest released movie of the year. Rogue One and TFA have hundreds of thousands of votes and they're positive.

    Other fanboy entertainment from Marvel and DC ain't getting downvoted like this and it's not because they are immune.
     
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  11. Travcon

    Travcon Rebel Official

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    I think there is a good chance it is the negativist attempting to spam with negative scores. With the amount of vitriol on the “hated it” side I wouldn’t be surprised at all. The one thing I did notice when skimming the RT user scoring was a bit of a pattern with most of the RT user scoring being at the extreme ends, either hating it or loving it. I really just don’t get the amount of zealotry on the hated it side. I mean if you hated that is fine but why the need to brow beat others if they don’t feel the same. I guess that to me is the biggest indicator of disingenuousness or a tacit admissions that they are engaging in a fair amount of hyperbole with the criticism.
     
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  12. Kekstarter

    Kekstarter Rebelscum

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    It actually is, I'm sorry.
     
    Kekstarter
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  13. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    The IMDb written reviews and (sh)reddit reviews are pretty meh/negative as well.
     
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  14. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    It's because DC and Marvel properties are directly competing with eachother- which leaves fans rather protective of their franchise. They mightn't like the movie but they'd be damned before they see it get a lower score than their "rival".

    Justice League is an absolute boxoffice dud and yet it's audience score is remarkably high. The fans didn't care for the movie enough to watch it but they didn' downvote it either.

    Star Wars is only ever in competition with itself and its fanbase's nostalgia. They see no need to "protect" the franchise. The missteps of the other franchises are more easily forgiven than those of Star Wars. For better or for worse.
     
    #14 LilyInTheSkywalker, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
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  15. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Will see what happens in a month.
     
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  16. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Look at the Straw Poll scores.

    It should tell you everything you need to know.

    Most of the scores are either 8 or 9. It's mode is 8.

    And then there is a small but sizable minority that's rated it as a 0 which pulls down the score overall. But beyond that? It's 7.3 rating is pretty close to Rogue One's 7.5 and TFA's 8

    Screen Shot 2017-12-16 at 12.28.32 PM.png
     

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  17. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    This is a very good observation and a great point.
     
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  18. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    The old Anti-TFA crowd had/has ~15K accounts at their disposal. I've documented this several times in the past. They can flex their muscles on imdb and YT because of how those systems work. But the WORST they ever managed to do with TFA on RT was get it to 88% in June of 2016. Yeah, I was tracking this. By September 2016 it bumped up to 89%(with still more reviews coming in) where it remains deadlocked today.
    Now, as far as the validity of that many responses in that short order.. the answer is mostly yes. Star Wars is a lightning rod and people are far more motivated either way to make it clear what they think about a Star Wars movie than they are any others, even MCU.
    The avg score is 3.3 for TLJ. Most of the individual scores are either 5 or 1/2 stars, very polorized.
     
    #18 Talon Karrde, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
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  19. Solo

    Solo Rebel Official

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    The final box office tally will probably be a good indicator of just how much "Camp Negative" affects word of mouth.

    If there's a larger than expected drop in box office takings, Camp Negative will take that as a win.

    But yeah, I wouldn't look too deeply into audience scores on RT just yet.. after all, Justice League is sitting on 80%...
     
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  20. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Exactly!

    I personally think that it's a good thing. ESB was a polarizing movie as well and so is TLJ. There's a reason for that. Both movies end on a hopeless note for the hardcore fans of the characters. People who just want to watch a fun movie get that in spades in both cases but the fans who ostensibly spent the two/ three years leading up to the film were left disappointed. Because people naturally look for resolution in movies and there's none to be found in the second chapter of a SW trilogy.

    TLJ will improve on multiple viewings and with the release of Epi 9.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2017 ---
    Please remember that even before the movie came out, there was a projected 20% decrease from The Force Awakens. TFA was a once in a 30 years sort of movie. It had so many things going for it beyond just the anticipation. TLJ was never going to make that much money. Not even if it was the second coming of ESB (that I believe it is).

    So if it falls below a 20% fall, then you know you've had a bit of an issue.
     
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